[House Hearing, 113 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] MILITARY CONSTRUCTION, VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2014 ---------- Thursday, April 18, 2013. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS BUDGET WITNESS HON. ERIC K. SHINSEKI, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS Chairman Opening Statement Mr. Culberson. Good morning. The Subcommittee on Military Construction and Veterans Affairs will come to order. We delighted to have with us the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, and we have got a lot of questions for you and a vote coming up in about an hour, and I know the members of the committee all have questions for you, Mr. Secretary. And we are delighted to have you here and appreciate your service to the country. As each and every one, we are grateful to your service to the Nation and our men and women who have served our country so faithfully. And I would like at this time to introduce my friend Mr. Bishop for any statement he would like to make. Ranking Member Opening Staetment Mr. Bishop. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have done a lot to ease the burden of military service. For example, Congress passed the 9/11 GI bill, the Hiring Heroes Act, and the Caregivers Act all with very strong bipartisan majorities. However, we are still struggling in one area that can make a world of difference to a veteran, and this is the area of the claims process. We have a serious problem in the country when there are over 850,000 veterans waiting compensation claims and over 600,000 that have waited in excess of 125 days, commonly referred to as backlogged. I have heard from many on the reasons for the backlog, and the inclusion of the Agent Orange, the winding down of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the complexity of the new wounds, both physical and mental, to our veterans and others, but what I want to hear today and what I would like to discuss is what is actually being done to fix it. I want to talk about results and how this fiscal year 2014 budget is going to achieve those results. How are the initiatives and funding in this budget going to meet the Department's goal to end the backlog by 2015? Because we can talk about increases in spending for VA until we are blue in the face, but if there are no results, then we are just wasting time and resources. Mr. Chairman, when it comes to wasting resources in this current budget climate, I can't tell you how frustrated and how disappointed I am and many Members are in the recent announcement on the integrated electronic health record program. Less than a year ago, Mr. Secretary, you and Secretary Panetta appeared before Congress, promising to develop a single common joint electronic health record that would, according to your statement then, unify the two Departments' electronic health record systems into a common system to ensure that all DOD and VA health facilities have service members' and veterans' health information available throughout their lifetimes. I am aware of the statement that was issued within the last 48 hours by Secretary Hagel, but I personally believe that DOD probably shoulders much more of the blame in this area than the VA, and also much more of the wasted cost; but nonetheless, I am very, very weary of the promises made to the Members of this Congress on behalf of veterans with no results. So, Mr. Secretary, when I talk to veterans, their number one issue is always VA claims, and the number one issue being worked by my staff in our district offices is VA claims. The veterans in my district are growing impatient, and so am I. So, Mr. Chairman, today is a very important hearing, and I know I speak for many of our colleagues and for Secretary Shinseki when I discuss how frustrated we all are with the situation. I know this is a problem that won't be fixed overnight, but my hope today is that we can focus on how we fix this problem together and how we fix it quickly, not just for the veterans waiting today, but for future generations of veterans to come. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to share my concerns, and I yield back. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Bishop. I share those sentiments with Mr. Bishop. It is just truly unacceptable the length of time it has taken to handle the disability claims process, and the absence of a unified electronic medical record is something that has absolutely got to be solved immediately. Now it is my pleasure to introduce and recognize the distinguished chairman of the full committee, the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Rogers. Full Committee Chairman Opening Statement Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Chairman Culberson, for yielding me this time. Secretary Shinseki and your staff, thank you for being with us today to discuss your 2014 budget. And I have already lamented the fact that this budget is woefully late, and in its totality it has got a lot of gimmicks, tax increases, generally unhelpful, but we will persevere. Let me begin by taking this opportunity to thank the service and sacrifice of the veterans that you are representing here today. As this subcommittee has done in the past, we want to reaffirm our commitment to providing our Nation's veterans with the benefits they deserve. The Department of Veterans Affairs budget we will be discussing in detail today provides the funding for VA, medical care compensation benefits, as well as education benefits, vocational rehab and housing loan programs. We have the responsibility to ensure that after serving our Nation with dignity and honor, our Nation's veterans receive the best care available. Along with other members of the subcommittee, I share the concern about the backlog of disability claims. While there has been an unprecedented demand after 10 years of war, changes to PTSD and Agent Orange eligibility and other revisions resulting in 940,000 veterans added to the system over the last 4 years, it is woefully unacceptable that 70 percent of these pending claims are over 125 days old. That is especially disconcerting as this subcommittee has gone to great lengths to make additional investments in processing and efficiency. I am, however, encouraged to hear about recent contract awards to speed electronic document conversion, and am hopeful that you can quickly build on these steps to significantly reduce, if not end, the backlog by 2015. You may recall that last year I and other members of the subcommittee emphasized to you how important we feel it is for the VA and the Defense Department to create an integrated electronic health record. We were encouraged by the progress both Departments seemed to be making on that effort, but I understand now that you and DOD have opted to create two separate record systems that would be interoperable. We hope that you will be able to convince us that this revised approach will produce the same result without delays and without increased costs. Finally, as you and I have briefly chatted before the meeting, prescription drug abuse, the Nation's fastest-growing drug problem, remains one of my top priorities. The Centers for Disease Control calls it a national epidemic. It is killing more people than car wrecks, just simply prescription drug overuse and abuse. In the past several years, we have had many discussions on how we can better help our veterans prevent prescription drug abuse or offer assistance to those facing addiction, and I look forward to continuing to work with you as we tackle this epidemic. And I know our active duty military and our veterans are sort of in a different posture in relation to this problem because of the multiple moves they have had to make in their career in different theatres, in different hospitals and medical care around the world, and I know that presents extra challenges for you, but this is a deadly problem that I know that you are working on, and I appreciate that. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my privilege to recognize the distinguished ranking member Mrs. Lowey from New York. Full Committee Ranking Member Opening Statement Mrs. Lowey. And I thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I would like to thank you and Ranking Member Bishop for holding this important hearing, and welcome Secretary Shinseki and all of our distinguished guests this morning. As the subcommittee works on the fiscal year 2014 bill, we have to help the Department of Veterans Affairs address very serious challenges. We must ensure that the men and women who have faithfully served our Nation receive the recognition and benefits they earned. We can never renege on the promises made to our veterans. Mr. Secretary, I commend you on the excellent work you have done in the past 4 years to substantially reduce veteran homelessness. I am also pleased with your progress to help facilitate a smoother transition from active duty to civilian life, but as you have heard from my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, I cannot express how outraged I am with the veterans claims backlog. As you know, there are currently up to 600,000 veterans waiting 125 days or more to have their medical claims processed. The VA's annual claims receipts are expected to reach 1.2 million in 2013, an increase of almost 60 percent since 2005. On Tuesday, I asked Secretary Hagel about the Department of Defense's role in the claims backlog. Both Departments, in my judgment--and I didn't know it was resolved, Mr. Chairman, but in my judgment, after hearing a lot of testimony and talking to many people, it seems to me they must use either the same electronic health record system, which is preferable, or ones that work seamlessly with each other. I asked Secretary Hagel how he plans to help the VA to reduce this backlog, because, frankly, there are many people with whom I have spoken that put the blame on the Department of Defense for not getting their act together and working seamlessly with your system. He told me, Secretary Hagel, that DOD would decide on an electronic medical records plan within 30 days. So I look forward to hearing about that. I just want to submit these pictures to include in the record. I probably should have blown them up, but I can't believe it, boxes and boxes of records. I don't know if you have seen them, Mr. Secretary. These are claim folders in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. I would like to ask you all later when I ask a question if you have taken a look at that, and if you have, how do you sleep at night? Boxes and boxes of records in Winston, North Carolina. If you would like to see them, I will pass these on to you, but I am submitting them for to the record. Mr. Culberson. They will be entered in the record. [The information follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mrs. Lowey. It is really amazing to me that these paper files exist, and these brave young men and women who are serving our country, many come back without limbs, have their records to sit in a box. Now, I know everyone here, everyone in this room, you have heard from all my colleagues, wants to fix this shameful problem, yet it persists. I just hope at this point we can all work together to address this pressing issue. And I look forward to hearing your testimony, Mr. Secretary. I thank you again for your service to your country, and I do hope that the new Secretary of Defense works with you and gets this done, because the public just can't get it. You know, if we can go to war, and we have an extraordinary military, and we can't solve this problem and get these records out of the boxes, that is just wrong. So, enough. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Culberson. Thank you very much, Mrs. Lowey. Mr. Secretary, I know that you and your staff can see clearly that we are, all of us on this subcommittee and the Congress, arm in arm in complete agreement that the backlog is unacceptable; that we have, as a Congress--you know that we have made massive investments in Veterans Administration, exempted you from the sequestration. You have seen a 16 percent increase in funding for your budget in the mandatory programs; tremendous support from the Congress and unanimous, adamant feelings on our part that this has to change. The backlog has to change, and the electronic medical records need to be unified. We know you have done your part as best you can on the medical records. But we look forward to your testimony. We encourage you to summarize it, we have got votes at about 11:30, and help us focus on the problems that we can help you solve. We want to hear, obviously, about the successes, but talk to us about the problems. We appreciate very much your service to the country and look forward to your testimony, and your entire statement will be entered into the record, and we look forward to hearing from you, sir. Thank you. Secretary's Statement Secretary Shinseki. Thank you. Chairman Culberson, Ranking Member Bishop, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Lowey, other distinguished members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to present the President's 2014 and 2015 advance appropriations requests for VA. We deeply value your partnership and support in providing the resources needed to assure the quality of care and services we provide to veterans. Let me also acknowledge other partners who are in the room today, some of our veteran service organizations, whose insights and support make us much better at our mission of caring for veterans, their families and our survivors. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to take a minute to introduce others who are here at the witness table with me. To my left, far left, your right, is Mr. Stephen Warren, our Acting Assistant Secretary for Information and Technology. To my left is Todd Grams, our Chief Financial Officer. To my right is Dr. Randy Petzel, Under Secretary for Health. To his right, Allison Hickey, Under Secretary for Benefits. And then to the far right, Steve Muro, who is Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs. Mr. Chairman, thank you for accepting my written statement for the record. Let me just say very quickly. The 2014 budget and 2015 advance appropriations requests demonstrate the President's steadfast commitment to our Nation's veterans and you all as well. I thank the Members for your resolute commitment to our veterans as well, for the budgets that we have worked together, and I seek your support on these requests. The latest generation of veterans is enrolling in VA at a higher rate than previous generations. Sixty-two percent of those who deployed in support of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq have used at least one VA benefit or service. VA's requirements are expected to continue growing for years to come. Our plans and resources must be robust enough to care for them all. The President's 2014 budget for VA requests $152.7 billion; $66.5 billion in discretionary funding and $86.1 billion in mandatory funding, an increase of $2.7 billion in the discretionary account, about 4.3 percent above the 2013 level. Mr. Chairman, this is a strong budget, which enables us to continue building momentum for delivering on three promises we made nearly 4 years ago now. The first was to increase veterans' access to VA's benefits and services. The second was to go after the disability claims backlog, something that has been building for decades. We committed to ending it in 2015, and we put together a robust plan. We are in execution of it, still targeted on 2015. And the third promise was to end veterans' homelessness in this country, this rich and powerful country, and we targeted 2015 for accomplishing that. These were bold and ambitious goals then. They remain bold and ambitious goals today, because veterans deserve a VA that advocates for them and then goes and fights and puts resources behind its promises. Access. Of the roughly 22 million living veterans in the country today, more than 11 million now receive at least one VA benefit or service from VA, an increase of over a million veterans in the last 4 years. We have achieved this by opening new facilities, renovating others; increasing investments in telehealth and telemedicine; sending mobile clinics and vet centers to remote areas where veterans live; and using every means available, including social media, to connect more veterans to VA. Increasing access is a success story for VA. Backlog. I hear the comments of the members of this committee. Too many veterans wait too long to receive benefits they deserve. There is no question about that. We know this is unacceptable, it is unacceptable to me, and no one wants to turn this situation around more than this Secretary, more than Secretary Hickey, or more than the workers of VBA, 52 percent of whom are veterans themselves. They have an interest in this. We are resolved to eliminate the claims backlog in 2015, not just reduce it, end it, when claims will be processed at 125 days or less--that is our 2015 measure of success--at a 98 percent accuracy level. Our efforts mandate investments in VBA's people, processes and technology. And so very quickly, people. More than 2,300 claims processes have completed training to improve the quality and productivity of claims decisions. More are being trained, and VBA's new employees now complete more claims per day than their predecessors. Processes. Use of disability benefits questionnaires, or what we call DBQs, are online forms for submitting medical evidence, that have dropped average processing times of medical claims and improved accuracy. There are now three lanes for processing claims: An express lane for those that will predictably take less time; a special operations lane, for the unusual cases or those requiring special handling; and then a core lane for the remainder, which are the majority of claims. Now, technology is critical to this process as well; people, process and technology. Technology is critical to ending the backlog. Our paperless processing system, the Veterans Benefits Management System, VBMS, will be faster, improve access, drive automation, and reduce variance. Thirty- six regional offices today are using VBMS. We are targeted to complete the fielding of VBMS by the end of this year. All 56 will have it, and we are pulling that fielding plan as far to the left as we can. Finally, homelessness. The last of our three priority goals has been to end veteran homelessness in 2015. Since 2009, we have reduced the estimated number of homeless veterans by more than 17 percent. The latest available estimate from January 2012 is 62,600. There is more work to be done here, but we have mobilized a national program that reaches into communities all across the country. Prevention of veterans' homelessness will be the follow-on main effort. Right now it is rescue and getting people off the streets. It must be accompanied with a prevention program that keeps more veterans from ending up there. So, finally, Mr. Chairman, we are committed to the responsible use of the resources provided by the Congress. Again, thank you for this opportunity to appear here today. I regret the lateness of the submission of our budget, but I thank you for your support of veterans and of our request. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. [The information follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Culberson. Mr. Secretary, in the interest of time, I will keep my questions fairly short and to the point in order to give everyone a chance to visit with you before the vote occurs. PROCESSING CLAIMS The number of claims being submitted have increased every year. The new automated system is still not operating nationwide. You have been working on this for years, promised us for years that this would be resolved. You say you are still on target to hit that 2015 deadline, but the number of completed claims continues to fall below projections. The average number of days it takes to complete a claim continues to grow, and accuracy levels are still below all the targets that you have set. What is the VA doing differently that would enable the community to believe that you can meet your goal of no claim taking longer than 125 days and claims determination being accurate in 98 percent of cases? Secretary Shinseki. Mr. Chairman, let me just describe what we have been about, which is a robust plan. Congress has been very supportive, and we are executing that plan as we speak. Now, if we can think back 4 years ago, our system was paper because we received paper. Everything we received from DOD is in paper. The records that Congresswoman Lowey demonstrated in Winston-Salem, my understanding is today those records have been cleared up. But needless to say, those are records that follow members around their tour in the military, and that is what we receive for processing. This is what we are trying to change, this juggernaut of paper that comes our way. Veterans submit their claims in paper, usually accompanied by some of those records as well. So, we have to change that. We have hired more claims processors throughout the years, and still the number of claims, because after over a decade of war, continues to grow. We have to change our approach here and what we have developed is a movement of automation. In order to move to automation, we have to create an automation tool that others can send electrons to. DOD has agreed to do this. By the end of this year, we will be receiving electrons, that is the commitment from DOD. All that paper that has been coming our way is beginning to change. We have over 800,000 claims in paper today. The ones that we have begun processing will continue in paper and finish out. The ones that we think are able to be scanned and put into the database are being scanned. That is a work in progress. What we have been about for the last 2 years is developing an automation tool that has the capability and the power to make this transition. We have done that. That program is called VBMS. We are fielding it today. We are in 36 of the 56 regional offices. As I said, we had set aside this entire year to field 56 locations. My guess is we are going to be finished early, and when we have that system in place, an automation tool and DOD feeding us electrons, veterans will have an ability to file online, provide us their claims electronically, and scan in the documents that they would like to submit for consideration. We are in the process of creating a major transformation. MEETING THE 2015 DEADLINE Mr. Culberson. Yes, sir. I appreciate that, and my question, though, is what is the VA doing differently or new that would convince the Congress that you can meet this 2015 deadline? With all due respect, sir, that is basically the same things we have heard for the last many years. I have to say, based on the performance so far and the continuing increase in the amount of time it takes to handle a claim, the continuing problems, the tremendous increase in funding that we have given you, and all the support and love and encouragement we can give you, and we still haven't seen the changes, I can now see why some of my colleagues have said that the VA should be required to simply turn claims processing over to the private sector with a performance-based contract that would make funding contingent on speed and accuracy metrics. Under this scenario, current VA claims processors would have to compete for their job with the private sector, with a private company that would win the competition to process claims. The goal here is to serve veterans. The goal is to ensure that our veterans are given the support and the help that they have earned to their service to the country. And the work is so vital and so important, I just don't see how we can simply continue the way we have. In fact, based on everything I have seen and heard in the time that Chairman Rogers has entrusted me with this extraordinary privilege of being the chairman of this subcommittee, I just haven't seen much change. TURNING BACKLOG OVER TO PRIVATE SECTOR So, why shouldn't the Congress go ahead and change the law that by 2015, in 20 months; if you haven't met your deadline, create a situation where the private sector can step in and handle this for you, and those folks that are not doing their job with the VA, just simply turn over the responsibilities to a private company to make sure that our veterans are given the benefits that they have earned? Secretary Shinseki. Fair enough, Mr. Chairman. I think what I have described is a robust plan here to accomplish what we all want, which is no veteran should have to wait for any claim, that is for disabilities that they have earned and incurred. I think we are all committed to that. This is an ambitious plan. At the same time that we began this transition of VA, DOD and all the inputs, we also added to our workload to take care of some unfinished business. Vietnam veterans and Agent Orange, for 47 years have not been recognized for three key diseases. We added that to the workload, knowing that it was going to increase inventory and slow the backlog or increase the backlog. We testified to that 2 to 3 years ago, and we said that this was the right thing to do, and we were going to do it. To accept this increase, we were going to work through this and develop an automation tool, VBMS. It is in the process of being delivered. We also, for 20 years have not acknowledged Gulf War illness for veterans who served in Desert Storm One. There were a variety of indicators that they had healthcare issues, never recognized, but 3 years ago we said we were going to do something about it. For the first time ever, we don't have a clear cause of these maladies. Mr. Culberson. Yes, sir. Secretary Shinseki. In the past we have always said we are going to find a cause before we grant. We decided there were nine diseases that had a sufficient enough population for us to say we don't know what caused it, but something obviously happened. We will treat those symptoms and then deal with the disability claims. CONGRESS LETTING PRIVATE SECTOR COMPETE Mr. Culberson. Yes, sir. My question was, though, why shouldn't we in Congress go ahead and create a mechanism and let the private sector compete for this. In 20 months, your deadline is 2015, if you can't meet it, we will go ahead and let the private sector come in and step up to the plate. And then I will turn it over to Mr. Bishop. Secretary Shinseki. Well, I think we have indicators now that the plans we have in place have the results we are beginning to see to bear fruit, and this will continue to show over 2013 and into 2014. I remain confident that 2015 is a good target for us. We have done employee training, and more claims per day are being completed, a 30 percent increase in accuracy. We have, as I said, segmented lanes, where we have a fast lane and a special lane and a lane for the vast majority of claims. Productivity has already shown a 10 percent increase in offices that have gone this route. Disability claims questionnaires have speeded up processing and increased our production by 60,000 claims. We are moving to a rules-based engine for the VBMS program that we are currently fielding. As soon as we are done fielding it, we are looking for the opportunity to insert a rule-based device, like a TurboTax capability, where the right data fills the blocks, and decisions are made, and checks are cut. Fifty-two calculators for fifteen disability body systems have been reviewed and are integrated into VBMS, and we expect that accuracy alone will rise to 92 percent. You know, I think we have a good plan in place. It is a robust plan. We have been building it for 2 years now. We have just begun fielding VBMS 6 months ago, and we are in 36 locations. Mr. Culberson. Well, you know how strongly we support you. The Committee and the Congress have given you everything you have asked for to do what has to be done so that our veterans who have earned these benefits can receive them in a timely fashion. And I tell you, if it doesn't happen, I think we should look at a radical restructuring and some changes to make sure those men and women get what they have earned. Secretary Shinseki. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Culberson. We really got to rethink this. Secretary Shinseki. Well, Mr. Chairman, I thank you---- Mr. Culberson. Do something different. Secretary Shinseki [continuing]. For the support of the Congress. I mean, it has been crucial. CLAIMS INVENTORY But just so we are not sitting here thinking there is nothing happening, we have averaged a million claims decisions going out the door for the last 4 years, so when you are talking about a claims inventory of about 870,000 claims. The backlog is clearly larger than it needs to be at roughly 600,000, but when you are putting a million claims out the door with an inventory of 870,000 claims, there is work being done. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, sir. Secretary Shinseki. It is not a static number of claims. Mr. Culberson. I need to move to Mr. Bishop. Mr. Bishop. Mr. Bishop. Thank you very much. Mr. Secretary, while I share the chairman's frustration, I do have some serious reticence about suggesting that contractors could do the work. Our experience with DOD and with most of the agencies where we have utilized contractors is that contractors have cost significantly more to the government, to the taxpayers to produce the results that were done by the civil service employees. That has been documented particularly in the Department of Defense. So I am not so sure that that would be the stick that we would hold over the Department's head, but we are very, very frustrated, and we expect that something has to be done. Another item from your testimony that caught my attention, which I guess just highlights the challenges that you face, is that the average number of claimed conditions for recently separated servicemembers, which is now in the 12 to 16 range, is an increase in the number of disabilities claimed by veterans of earlier years. CLAIMS VERIFICATION Do claims processors have to have all the claimed conditions verified before the claim can be processed, or as conditions are verified, the claim for that condition approved? Secretary Shinseki. I think the increase in the number of issues per claim is reflective of the complexity of the operation. The fact that we have improved battlefield medicine, with evacuations, we have many, many more surviving the injuries that have traditionally been associated with warfare, and therefore, folks who return to us have more complex injuries and more issues to be dealt with. Mr. Bishop. So that means that it takes longer for the claim to actually be developed, in the process, and you can submit it for the record or get back with us, but I am interested to know whether or not, if they have these multiple issues, if all of those issues have to be developed in order for any of the claims to be processed. Secretary Shinseki. It takes longer. I think---- Mr. Bishop. Wait until the end to rule on the claim until they have dealt with all 12 to 16 different issues as opposed to some that are clear and some that are not so clear? Secretary Shinseki. What we do is if there are that many issues with a claim, we will decide those that are clearly resolvable, and make those decisions, and begin to address the disability claims payments. But by the current rules, if you take care of 14 of the 16, and the veteran is being cared for and being compensated, because those 2 remaining issues are still unresolved, the claim remains open and it counts as a backlog claim, even though you have completed a good portion of the work. I can provide a greater detail for the record. [The information follows:] VA's claims adjudication manual authorizes claims personnel to make an intermediate rating decision if the record contains sufficient evidence to grant any contention at issue, including service connection at a non-compensable level. (M21-1MR III.iv.6.A.1.a) Exercising this authority ensures that Veterans are afforded entitlement to benefits at the earliest possible date; however, issuing this partial decision does not resolve the pending claim. Such claims remain pending until all contentions associated with it are developed and decided back to the original date of claim. Thus, if the claim has been pending more than 125 days, it would still be considered part of the backlog inventory. Mr. Bishop. Thank you. That is some explanation, but not satisfaction for why you are experiencing the challenges that you are. LINK BETWEEN VA AND DOD I want to get back to the integrated electronic health records. Your Department and the Department of Defense were directed repeatedly by Congress to develop an electronic health record system that would follow a servicemember from enlistment to the time that they exited, But because of the problems that you and Secretary Panetta encountered, you decided to alter that original goal of the iEHR and to focus on making the systems more interoperable. VistA will be your core system. Have you been given any indication of what core system the Department of Defense is going to choose? And with Secretary Hagel being familiar with the VistA system, given his time at the VA, have you recommended the VistA system to DOD, and what effect would having the same system have on your claim backlog? GOAL OF IEHR And I noticed that in your 2014 budget request, you included $251 million for the iEHR. Can you explain what that money is going to be used for since you have altered the original goal for the iEHR? Secretary Shinseki. Certainly, Congressman. This has been an ongoing discussion now between Secretary of Defense and Secretary of VA for at least 4 years. Let me just say, I spent 38 years in uniform, and in those 38 years I knew there was a VA, but I didn't know what the VA did, and so, frankly, my whole focus and my time in DOD was preparing to go on mission. That is the mission they should be focused on. Mr. Bishop. And taking care of soldiers. Secretary Shinseki. Our responsibility then is, between the Departments, to ensure that we are being supportive of DOD's responsibilities here. As I have said before in testimony, very little of what we work on in VA originates here; most of what we work on originates in DOD, and that is not a negative. That reminds us of our important link between VA and DOD. It is not a link I understood for 38 years until I came here, and so the earliest discussions with Secretary Gates was this effort to change the relationship, and that has been under way between the two Secretaries. The cultures in the two Departments are a little different because of their national security missions, but we have worked very hard in the last 4 years to bring the two Departments together, and one of the signature efforts has been this electronic health record. We agreed in the past that that electronic health record would have certain key words associated with it, single, joint, common, integrated electronic health record, all of that code, to ensure that we stayed on a very focused approach to resolving this issue. We added to it open in architecture, nonproprietary in design, and all of that was, again, to focus us on a solution that would be a single record that we would both share. Mr. Bishop. DOD agreed with the nonproprietary? Secretary Shinseki. That definition has been agreed to, and my discussions with Secretary Hagel shortly after his arrival was he wanted some time to get into his own Department, figure out how that translated, make sure it had the right structure in place, and I believe that is what you are receiving testimony about. He has decided to make some adjustments to the structure, and then he and I will meet. I look forward to that. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DOD-VA SYSTEMS Mr. Bishop. Your system is not proprietary, but the DOD system in the past is proprietary. The government owns your system. Secretary Shinseki. Yes. Mr. Bishop. We have full control of it. But the one that is utilized by the DOD is proprietary, and contractors---- Secretary Shinseki. I am not quite as familiar with DOD's current contract, but I believe that is correct. That it is a contractor-provided system. Ours is government-owned, government-operated program and, in fact, we have taken our code and put it into the open architecture so that anyone who wants to has access to it and can use it. I believe between DOD and VA, we have the opportunity to create an electronic health record that has these dimensions to it that will benefit many others in this country who couldn't afford to do the kind of research development that we do. We both look forward to being able to provide that. Mr. Bishop. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Bishop. Chairman Rogers. Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the claims backlog, I know now that you are moving rapidly to digitalize the claims, which I think is the only way to go. That allows you to move these cases so much quicker, and I salute you for that. On the electronic health records, since 2008, between DOD and the VA, we have spent about $537 million to create this integrated electronic health record with very little to show for it. The effort was made to combine the two into one. That apparently has fallen by the boards, and now apparently we are trying to integrate the two systems to make them interoperable. Am I generally correct in that statement? Secretary Shinseki. Mr. Chairman, we have two records today. Mr. Rogers. Yes. Secretary Shinseki. We have created what I call a GUI, a graphical user interface, that allows a physician to pull data out of each system. If I am seeing a veteran, and I want to see what is in his military record, I can reach into DOD's database and get that information. It is awkward, it is slow, but it is interoperable, and you can make it better, but it isn't where we want to go. We are looking at a single electronic record that is seamless between us. I just think in the long run that serves both Departments, and I look forward to my discussions with Secretary Hagel. We don't want to end up, again, with a decision that has two records that in time get developed in ways that no longer talk to each other, because we know that the speed at which healthcare improvements are occurring, we are going to want to add capabilities, and we need to do this in a seamless way so that each of us have a record that reflects those improvements. Mr. Rogers. Well, you and have I shared this information before about the young man that came to see me a few years ago, a veteran from Iraq that had been in an IED explosion to his head and face. It ruined one eye, but the other eye was reasonably well, but then it began to deteriorate after he came home. He went to the Lexington VA hospital. They were unable to operate, to save this eye, because they could not get the records of the DOD when he was first treated after being injured, and they were afraid to operate again here in the head area because they just didn't know what they were facing. As a consequence, he lost the second eye. That is unforgivable. I know you and I have talked about this before, and there must be a lot of cases just like that that are happening today. We simply can't violate the honor that our soldiers have given to us by that kind of ineptitude. Tell me that that won't happen today. Secretary Shinseki. Well, I will first agree with you, Mr. Chairman, that that is a horrible reflection of two Departments being unable to provide the information where we can deliver health care. We are working; as I say, today we are better than we were 3 years ago. We now have this ability to pull out of each of our databases. It isn't good enough. We are headed to a seamless system where we can share that information back and forth across our boundaries. There are active duty soldiers who are treated in VA facilities, and then they go back to Department of Defense service. We have to be seamless here, and this is what we are working towards, your statement, Mr. Chairman, about that should never happen again. Mr. Rogers. Well, this has human consequences in what we are talking about. It is not just electronic information. Let me touch briefly, Mr. Chairman, if I have the time---- Mr. Culberson. Certainly. PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE Mr. Rogers [continuing]. On another problem that really bothers me over the years, and that is prescription drug abuse. I know you are working in this arena very, very much. One of the things that I think we could do is to require mandatory physician training on the dangers of prescription overuse. The rate of prescriptions for medical problems in the military is skyrocketing. After the 2010 report of the Army's, ``Pain Management Task Force,'' DOD announced plans to expand drug testing for unauthorized prescription drugs, and we have seen a huge increase in the reported symptoms of PTSD strongly associated with substance abuse and dependence. The pain reliever prescriptions written by military physicians quadrupled between 2001 and 2009. I know we have had the combat-related injuries that require these medicines, and I know that it is difficult for us to judge whether or not the problem is solely related to an increase in the number of injuries received in warfare, but having even included that in our calculations, we are seeing a huge increase in the number of overdoses of these medicines. I appreciate your efforts to bring the VA online with our State-run prescription drug abuse monitoring programs. Now 48 States have those systems in place, and you have now linked up VA with those monitoring programs, which I think is a huge step forward. I am told that currently, one in six vets returning from war zones report symptoms of PTSD, one in six. I am sure you share my fear that as these wars wind down and our men come home, men and women, we could be faced with a very serious problem even beyond what we have today. SCREENING FOR SUBSTANCE ABUSE A 2012 Institute of Medicine report prepared for DOD recommended that we better prepare our military health providers to recognize and screen for substance abuse problems. Do you think that additional education for our doctors, nurses about the risks of these prescription pain killers would be helpful, or have we gone there already? Secretary Shinseki. Mr. Chairman, I am going to call on Dr. Petzel here in a minute. Let me just summarize. What you are describing here is an issue that concerns all of us, and I would say that in VA we have asked ourselves the question about overmedication. But again, all that we talked about, an integrated electronic health record that allows us to see what is happening in DOD as people transition out, a mandatory transition assistance program where everyone leaving the military has an opportunity to have an exit physical exam so that when they come to us, they come to us because we know there are issues to be dealt with. As opposed to discovering when someone is in crisis that overmedication or substance abuse is an issue. The law precluded us from being able to do State monitoring before the chairman's leadership here, and with the law we are now able to participate. Regulation is in place, and we are in the process of executing what we have described as the right outcome. With that, let me call on Dr. Petzel. Dr. Petzel. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. STATE MONITORING Mr. Chairman, I also want to add my thanks for the legislation that allowed us to do state monitoring. This is an important step in getting control of the issue of the overuse of opioids, particularly by the veteran community, and avoiding the social consequences and the physical consequences of that kind of addiction. Let me tell you what we are doing in addition to that. In terms of the treatment of pain, we have a stepwise pain program that begins with the least harmful, the least risky type therapy that includes acupuncture, et cetera, and opioids are at the very end of that stepwise process. We have educated everyone in our medical centers on this, and are working to educate our primary care providers, particularly in our community-based outpatient clinics, which is where much of this problem exists. DATA SET The second thing is that we have developed a data set that identifies veterans who overuse opioids, and prescribers who overprescribe or are outliers in terms of prescribing. That information is fed back to each medical center. There is an individual who is identified as being responsible for following up on each one of those outliers, be it a patient or a provider, to see that the issue is addressed with the individual provider. I would say that there is never enough education about these things, so can we do more in terms of education? Absolutely, we can. Secretary Shinseki. Mr. Chairman, just in closing, I would just say that veterans enrolled with or enrolling with VA are all surveyed when they come in for their visits, and they are interviewed about alcohol use, interviewed about substance abuse, about insomnia, about pain and pain management, all of this to identify whether or not there is someone in need of help. Mr. Rogers. Well, we had the problem in the private sector outside the military, particularly in my district where OxyContin became the killer drug. It is a wonderful drug for severe pain, 12-hour release, but when young people learned they could crush the pill and shoot it up and get that 12 hours in a split second, it was an immediate high and extremely addictive. We now have required all opioids to have an abuse-deterrent feature, meaning that you can't crush it. It is a gummy thing that you can't abuse. However, a lot of our doctors, not knowing the dangers of OxyContin, began to prescribe them for a toe ache or what have you, and we became hooked, and we lost thousands of our young people, particularly in my district, and it was not isolated to the civilian sector. There were a lot of military people, veterans especially. So this is something that is deadly. I think it feeds the suicide increase rate that we see in the military and with veterans. It is related, of course, to PTSD, and I think that our veterans are particularly susceptible to overprescription, and I would urge you to continue your strong vigilance on the problem because it is not going away. Secretary Shinseki. Sure. Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We expect votes about 11:45. Ms. Lowey. Mrs. Lowey. Thank you very much. Secretary Shinseki, I think you have heard our concerns. Frankly, to me, as a citizen, putting aside my role as a Congresswoman, it is extraordinary that a four-star general and the Secretary of Defense could go with such distinction and protect our country, but as you said, for 4 years, there have been ongoing discussions and we still haven't worked out a seamless transition. So I do hope that Secretary Hagel could match your efforts over at the VA and do what he has to do and get this seamless transition, whether it is the same VistA program or another one. So I just wish you good luck. PRIVATIZATION ISSUES And I want to say, Mr. Chairman, I do have some concerns about the privatization issue. I understand the desperation among my colleagues, but it is my understanding that 52 percent of the claims processors are veterans. And it would also seem to me that analyzing the situation, it is not the fault of the claim processors, it is the people at the top who can't seem to coordinate and get this system in place. And that would be my concern about even considering private sector contracts. I want to move to a related issue, which is jobs. The unemployment rate for younger veterans ages 18 to 24 has been the highest among all demographics. The projected drawdown in Afghanistan is likely going to exacerbate the situation for our younger veterans. If you could share with us what courses of action you are taking to tackle this particular issue, and also discuss how the $104 million for Transition: GPS, Goals, Plans, Success, will help separating servicemembers better prepare for their civilian life as they transition. If you could discuss the transition, what we are doing to improve this situation, that is another area that I think is so unconscionable. UNEMPLOYMENT FOR VETERANS I have several friends in the private sector who are aggressively working on this, getting corporations to hire veterans. But there should be a seamless transition. It should start before they become a veteran, before they are separated from the service. Can you talk about that, please? Secretary Shinseki. Certainly, Congresswoman. We are all focused on the issues of unemployment for veterans at large. For one thing, we hire veterans. One-third of VA are veterans, fully one-third. And we have a goal of moving to 40 percent. Whenever we are in discussion with other agency and Department partners, hiring veterans is a discussion as well. We have partnered with the Joining Forces initiative that is led out of the White House by the First Lady and Dr. Biden. Their efforts have been to link in with the private sector and get corporations to provide jobs. The goal was 100,000 jobs for service spouses and veterans by the end of 2013. That goal was met in 2012. And my understanding is those corporations have committed now to increasing to 250,000 jobs. HIRING FAIRS So a lot of momentum there. In VA we conduct hiring fairs. We partner with the Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber's Hiring Our Heroes campaign has conducted in excess of 400 hiring fairs around the country. We on our own, besides partnering with the Chamber, have put on three fairs with over one hiring fair a year. Ours is a little more deliberate. When a veteran shows up, we put them through a resume preparation program, which is automated. They describe what they did in the military, and it churns out, in business language, a resume. They get to edit it, and then we run it through the system, and they have their own resume to be used for whatever interviews they conduct later. On-site we also have seasoned interviewers who have interviewed for hiring. The veterans go through a training program, a process to rehearse what an interview is about. What does the interviewer want? What do you want out of the interview? They get to go through that training as many times as they want. Then they go onto the floor, where the real job interviews are, and they go for on the record. They go to interview one, and if they are not satisfied they did as best as they could, they can go back to the training process. All of it intended for them to leave that day with a job, if that is possible. We have employers on-site. But more importantly, they leave with a resume and skills to be able to do interviews on their own. Mrs. Lowey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Mr. Secretary and good luck. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Ms. Lowey. Judge Carter. Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary Shinseki, General, thank you for being here. Thank you all of you for what you do for our veterans. We are frustrated, and we are talking about frustrations that are significant to me. I came to Congress in 2002. When I came to Congress, there were certain things that we were demanding needed to be fixed immediately with the military. And the number one was the two health plans being able to function as one while communicating together. And it was always said VA had the good one, DOD had a bad one, we had to fix them. I have been in Congress 10 years. I have heard exactly the same conversation today that I heard 10 years ago, with variations. That is very frustrating. Secondly, you are talking about having a third of the people in your agency are veterans. One of the things that has been a great joy in my life is to get to know the American soldier. And when I say soldier, I mean warrior. But my reference is Fort Hood, although we have Air Force contingency at Fort Hood also. And one of the things that is a sense of pride for all Americans is how well we have instilled in our soldier, in our warrior, how the mission is all important, and every soldier has a part of that mission, and that we leave none of our warriors behind no matter what. And American soldiers die every day meeting that obligation. One of the frustrating things, General, that bothers me a lot, and I know it does you too, is we have veterans today that think the Veterans Administration is leaving them behind. They are being left on that battlefield. And they are so proud. Talk to veterans groups at home and they tell you that we have still got--the military still cares about us. And they are proud of having a veterans department that is theirs. Theirs. That is why you don't get veterans talking about give me a voucher to go to some other hospital. No. I want to be with my guys. That is their whole world. When we fail those veterans and they felt like they are left on the battlefield, we destroy something that is very important to our country and we have instilled in these people. That concerns me as much as anything we are doing here, is that the average soldier--and I hear it from a lot of veterans today, a whole lot--that almost with tears in their eyes, I don't think I am ever going to get this claim finished. I don't think I am ever going to get my life settled. I go and I bang my head against a stone wall and nothing happens. I know the frustration. I am not military trained. I wish I had been. But I want to tell you, one of the things that you as a general know, most of these people may be ex-military, is when you plan to complete a mission, whether it be a small engagement or a very large scale engagement, you start with certain assumptions of things that need to be accomplished, you get as much intelligence on how to accomplish it as you can, then the commander instills in those below him what the ultimate objective is so you know we are all on the same team, we are going to take that hill, we are going to do this, whatever it takes, whatever the project is. As you proceed, you run into things that don't fit what you thought was there. There is always that outside influence, that outside thing that makes change. And what the Army and the military does so well for our soldiers is we train them to adjust, keeping their eye on the mission. You know this. I am not teaching you anything, you teach it. I know you have. I think the VA has got so much of a relationship with the veterans, that is the way they have got to get this thing fixed, all these things fixed. It is like you take a functioning mission-accomplishing operation and you turn them into bureaucrats, which is let me sit and take care of my little niche and let the rest of the world pass me by. I don't know the solution. I think you do. I have great confidence in you as a leader. I have told you that more than once since we have met, because I knew your reputation from Fort Hood, which is you are very highly respected at Fort Hood. And I never hear a bad word about you. Everybody says he is a great general, he is a great man. And I carry that with me. But somehow the VA has got to start performing its missions, and we have got to do what we are talking about here today. And it is a shame that an Army that can show the world, a military that can show the world that they can accomplish whatever mission they can do, we take them out and put them in their organization and we fail in our missions. I will tell you I am embarrassed that the great place, which you know what I am talking about, Fort Hood, we call it the great place, has the worst VA record in the country. I am speaking of Waco, they are number one in backlog, at least they were unless you all have fixed it, and I would be very blessed to learn if you have. But we made the front page of the papers, the number one, worst VA facility in the country for backlog was the one that is related to Fort Hood. That is not acceptable for those of us who like to say that we produced a great place for warriors. And we want to have them have a great place when they go to the VA. I personally will volunteer, if it will help, to chew butt once a month, okay, at the VA if you want me to. I personally will--I did this with the Highway Department Because I couldn't get them to get off their butt, and I will do it with the VA. I am an old trial judge. I know how to do that pretty well. And I will. We will have a meeting every day, we will see what has been done, and tell me why not, and what are you going to change to make it happen? That is not a question; that is a statement. I want to know why we haven't made those adjustments when we have run into these things. And how can we start making those adjustments and having trained people that say I see the goal, I see the mission, and I am going to do this mission? If I run into a snag, I am stepping over here and going past it. Secretary Shinseki. May I just give a response? Mr. Carter. Yes, sir, please. Secretary Shinseki. I would say there is no daylight between us, Congressman. I mean, we want the same things. And what you describe is my experience in uniform. Part of the culture change in VA is having the opportunity to be able to put some of those disciplines and behaviors in place. When I talk about training our workforce, it is very much at being able to hold people accountable. If you never train them to the standard, it is hard to hold them accountable because they have no way of getting there. So first a requirement is to establish a standard and train those folks to it. That is underway, and has been underway for some time. The other is to provide them the tools they have never had. This VBMS automation tool is powerful. And it is going to change the way we process claims. Why do I know this? Because in 2009, when I arrived, Congress gifted our veterans with something called the 9/11 GI Bill. We didn't have a tool for that either. Congress said--I arrived in January, in August the program begins. I think you recall that first semester was pretty tough. It was all done by paper and pencil because we didn't have a tool. Well, that is what is going on in the disability claims program. At the same time we were doing paper and pencil enrollments, we began developing an automation tool for the 9/11 GI Bill. That fall semester, we struggled to get 173,000 youngsters enrolled. Today, we have over 900,000 enrolled because of this automation tool we developed. We learned a lot going through that process. That learning translates into how we are fielding and developing this Veterans Benefits Management System, VBMS, that we have created for our disability claims processing. Same approach, to be incremental, and make sure it works, take the next piece, make sure it works, take the next piece. It sounds like a long and drawn-out process because it is incremental, rather than taking a big bite and have something fail and you don't know what caused it. This way we get to see what the issues are, fix them, and then keep moving on. In the long run, it is faster to do it that way. I would say 6 months into it, we are at 36 of 56 regional offices. We will be completed with fielding VBMS, and then we will have a way of measuring improved performance. Waco had a good performance record. And so when we made the decision on Agent Orange, it was one of the places that we went to and asked them to do extra work. We saddled it with an additional workload that other regional offices did not receive. Frankly, we had to work through it. It took us 2 years to get all those Agent Orange claims through the system. Some of their claims aged as well. We understood that was going to happen, and we are now in the process of bringing everyone back online. Mr. Carter. Well, thank you. And I have absolute confidence in you, Mr. Secretary, because I know your track record. I hope that you will help instill this in the workers at the VA--and I go out there two, three times a year, and they are great, great people. But let's don't let our soldiers lose their warrior ethos, their belief that our country cares about them, and will always get them off that battlefield alive. And if not, if they are not allowed, their body will go home, and won't be left on the battlefield. It means an awful lot to the future of this country that we keep that going. And I don't want us to be the cause--our VA to be the cause of them losing that faith in us. God bless you. I will help. You let me know. I will help. Secretary Shinseki. I will. That very much resonates with me, Congressman. And let me just say this budget, just to demonstrate the amount of energy we are putting into it, this budget is about Veterans Benefits Administration, we have increased their budget by 13.6 percent, and it is about the IT tools that enable them to have those soldiers perform the way you and I recognize. A 10.8 percent increase to information technology in this budget. That is what we need to get to 2015. And without that, we would be challenged. Mr. Carter. Thank you. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Judge. Mr. Secretary, I am of course, struck with the judge's comments. I couldn't agree with them more. And the VA's customers are our veterans who have served the country. And I always am struck when I visit, if you think about it just very quickly before I recognize Mr. Farr, and they just started on a series of six votes, and obviously we will come back after the end of those votes because members have a lot of questions, and we appreciate your patience. There will be a six votes, with a motion to recommit in the middle. So it is going to be an extended series of votes. CUSTOMER SERVICE Just very, very quickly, while the members are here, and I would like for you to think about it and I think all the members here, when we visit at home with successful businesses in our districts, talk to the CEOs, the senior executives in those companies are always focused on the customer. They always talk to us about what they are doing to meet the needs of their customers. And you never hear any discussion about what they are doing in the top office, or what they are doing in management, or that they have got more money thrown at different sectors of the company. All you hear about is the customer. And I have to say in 3 years I have had the privilege of severing on this subcommittee I rarely ever hear any discussion of the customer from the VA's top leadership. And I think that may be one of the--I mean, obviously you are concerned about it. But I mean if I just could encourage you just shift your mind-set so you are looking at the VA--the military works from the top down, the VA ought to work from the bottom up. And just think about everything that you do in terms of the individual customer, the individual veteran, and what you can do to make sure that, as Judge Carter has said, that they don't feel left behind. I think it would help a lot. It certainly helps in the private sector to stay focused on the customer, and it would help the VA to stay focused on the customer. Secretary Shinseki. May I respond? Mr. Culberson. Yes, sir. Secretary Shinseki. I would say I appreciate those comments. And if in 4 years you have not heard me mention veterans---- MIND-SET OF THE AGENCY Mr. Culberson. Oh, no, I have heard you mention them. But I just think in terms of mind-set, sir. No, of course I know you are committed. It is not my intent to demean that. I just think in terms of mind-set of the agency as a whole, the mind-set of the private sector is always focused on the customer and how can we meet their needs. And you just don't see that, as I think you should, particularly at the VA. Secretary Shinseki. I would say that is our only mission, Mr. Chairman. I mean if you look at any of our buildings, emblazoned on them is the words of Abraham Lincoln, to care for him who have borne the battle. Mr. Culberson. Certainly. I know of your commitment, sir. It is just that there really is a different mind-set when you listen to the private sector focused on customers with the Federal Government. I appreciate all that you do. I recognize Mr. Farr. And we will, of course, come back. Let's go until about 5 minutes left in the vote, and then we will recess and come back after the votes. Thank you. Mr. Farr. Well, first of all, I have to say that my constituents complain a lot more about banks than they do about Department of Veterans Affairs. And they think they get a much better treatment. People respond when they ask questions at the Department of Veterans Affairs, and they don't when their house is being foreclosed on and their mortgages are upside down and they can't qualify for other loans. So I think if the private sector is the chairman's example that pays attention to customers, it certainly is not in the financial services industry. And I want to personally compliment you. I don't think any Secretary has done a better job. I mean you, not only as you told about initiating the GI bill, but you have been the first Secretary to really focus on how to eliminate homelessness of veterans. And that was one of the pledges of this committee many years ago, that we were going to leave no vet behind, and we were going to try get the Department to really drill down and do work with the homeless. And you have led the effort on that. You have expanded the disability category. No wonder we have so many files. I mean, I am as upset as everybody else about the backlog. But remember, we also gave so many more opportunities for veterans to file. You opened up the disability claims, and you now have veterans filing with five, six, seven more claims per filing issues than previous veterans did. I can understand what created this incredible rush and backlog. And hopefully we will, with your leadership and the money that we appropriate, be able to make progress on servicing these claims. I also think the Department of Defense should put some money into it because they are the ones that cause the problems. And I am furious at the fact that they can walk away from a lot of the responsibilities, including paying for making plans work and health care plans being interchangeable. Having said that, I have been really drilling down lately just trying to work out the local and State Veterans Affairs offices. And I realize that what is happening in our States is they take for granted all the money that goes to the States for veterans. And you give these administrative moneys to them, it never gets the kind of scrutiny that it does here because it is not a State responsibility, they are not paying for it out of State tax dollars or local tax dollars. And so the review, when we were in the legislature and we were in local government, is, oh, that is a Federal program that just happens to be housed in our county. And let's move onto something where we really have some authorities and some money in the game. And I think that you need to use your carrots with these States and local governments to shape them up to be as competent as you would like to see in your own department. Because I think there is a lot of incompetency and a lot of misinformation in State and local veterans departments. STATE-FUNDED CEMETERIES The other thing that I am concerned about is, as we have in California, is that the State doesn't want to pick up the responsibility for a State-funded cemetery. You and I have discussed this many times. And I would just like to refresh the Committee's memory: In fiscal year 2013 CR, we had language in there requiring the National Cemetery Administration to submit a strategy report to the committee on how the VA plans to meet its burial needs for veterans in rural areas. I mean, we do have a lot of veterans clinics and veterans hospitals, but sometimes they are so far away that the veteran can't take advantage of them. Cemeteries are similar. And what this report was supposed to do is to include a time frame for implementation of five new burial sites in rural locations. And I just wondered what the status of that report is. I am also interested in whether that report has included Fort Ord, which is still in Federal hands. I also would like to urge you again, with staff, to review this internal policy of requiring that anything within a 75-mile radius, if there is space available you can't expand. I mean, you essentially waived that 75-mile radius when you proposed creating the urban columbarium program in fiscal year 2011. That program, created without congressional approval, would allow veterans in urban areas, even though they have access to cemeteries within a 75- mile radius, to create new columbariums. And that has caused a lot of problems because people are thinking, well, if they can do it in the San Francisco Bay area, why can't we do it down in our area? The rule also doesn't consider actual drive time, or driving distances. It is just as the crow flies. And there is certainly differences in different parts of the country as to how difficult that 75-mile guideline has been. So I would really ask you to look at that and revise that definition to reflect more the practicality of being able to get there. RURAL BURIAL POLICIES We are trying to put it all together to try to get a State cemetery in California by having the locals raise money. Our veterans have had to go out and do bake sales, they have had golf tournaments. The State wants about $10 million raised out of it. The locals are not going to make it. And it is just tragic that, if we are going to have this program, that we don't use a little bit more of your stick, carrot and stick to make these States step up to the plate and take the responsibilities. We spend about $10 billion in veterans benefits in the State of California. Ten billion. I mean that is a huge part of our economy. And we never get thanks for it. And I want to thank you for being in charge. And I want you to use your general leadership to shape up the troops out there, shape up my State and local government troops. Secretary Shinseki. Congressman, let me ask Secretary Muro to respond to the specifics of your question regarding rural burial policy. I look forward to continuing to work with you on trying to meet the requirements for a solution here that serves veterans in Monterey. Mr. Farr. I would be remiss also if I didn't ask you, on behalf of the Northern California Members of Congress, bicameral, we would love to have you come visit the Oakland office, which has the largest backlog in the country. Really, I think your leadership and presence there would make a big difference. Secretary Shinseki. Okay. Fair enough. Mr. Muro. Mr. Muro. Thank you, Secretary, thank you, Congressman Farr, for that question. Let me start off by saying I have the privilege to lead the National Cemetery Administration, the only organization to ever receive a 95 score for customer service, not only in the Federal Government but also in the private sector. So we do address our customers, and we do work with our veterans to ensure they get what they need in the burial benefits and other benefits that they have earned. We did provide a reply to the rural policy. We submitted the policy. The urban policy was also approved by the Congress in the fiscal year 2011 budget. So we have those two new policies approved. The rural policy is looking at states where we have no VA national cemetery service and a population of 25,000 or less veterans that live in those areas within the State. But we are working closely with the States, so they continue to build State cemeteries and we don't overlap in their service areas. In California, Congressman, as you know, we have worked closely recently with your staff and with the staff of the State of California. They are actually revising their plan because they realize they submitted too high of a cost. Mr. Farr. I am familiar with that. Mr. Muro. And between your staff and my staff, we were able to convince them to submit a better plan that is more realistic so that they can get funded in our State grants program. Mr. Culberson. Mr. Farr, if I could, members that could not come back--are you able to come back, Sam, afterwards, after votes? Mr. Farr. I don't think so. Mr. Culberson. Okay. GETTING LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO STEP UP Mr. Farr. I know you want to end this. States that are interested in building State cemeteries can, and that was California's problem, that they didn't want to. They left it up to us to devise another method. We have tried to get the local government to step in for the State. And so it has been kind of a mess, because the locals didn't know how much money they had to put up. We need you to use your authorities, if you are going to go out and get these States, and even California. Use your muscle, and say, look at how much we are putting into this State. You got to shape up and be much more responsible in helping them. The States never did anything to implement it. They just stood back and watched. Now I have beaten the hell out of them, and they are paying some attention. Mr. Muro. We appreciate your support. I know that the Secretary sent the Governor a letter, encouraging him to build a State cemetery in Monterey. So we are working closely with them. Secretary Shinseki. Congressman, I will pick up on that. Mr. Farr. This should have been the Feds that built it. Mr. Culberson. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Mr. Rooney. Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know our time is very limited. I just wanted to echo a lot of what has already been said. General, I might be the only one that serves on this committee that actually served under you when you were the chief of staff and I was a young, much skinnier captain down at Fort Hood. So it is an honor to be here getting a chance to address you as a Member of Congress. You know, one of the hardest parts of my job, and I represent south central Florida and St. Petersburg regional office, I was told had the sad distinction of being one of the largest backlogs in the whole country. And one of the hardest parts of my job, and I am sure everybody else here, is when we get these constituent service issues that come into our district offices and it deals with, you know, my backlog, my claim, it has been so long, and we are making excuses almost for you of why things are taking so long. And you sort of run out of answers. And when we are trying to work together, it just gets very frustrating. And I think that you have heard a lot of that up here today. I certainly have a lot of retirees in South Florida. So a lot of my questions don't deal with banks, they deal with the VA. I am encouraged by a lot of the things I have heard up here today with regard to the integrated computer system. We came into government together as far as up here. I came in in 2008 as well. And I heard you testify in the Veterans Committee about doing this then. So I mean the time to move forward, hopefully 2015 is realistic, and I know that you have added on a lot of things, but I would disagree with one thing that you said, and then I am going to yield, is you said that there is sort of a separation between DOD and the VA when it comes to their lane of providing national security, and yours as taking care of the people after they get out. DOD-VA CORRELATION I think there is a correlation. I think that people will see certainly if we are not doing what George Washington said, taking care of the people that serve our country as a reflection of who we are as a Nation, then why the hell would they join the military if they are going to see that once they get out they are not going to be taken care of? So, again, it has been an honor to serve under you, sir, and, you know, I am rooting for you. And but we have had to make a lot of excuses to our constituents that is just getting very cumbersome. I don't know why DOD and the VA doesn't do one single computer system, as Mr. Bishop said, from enlistment until death. I don't get that. But anyway, thank you very much. I don't have a question. I am going to yield to Mr. Fortenberry. HIRING OUR HEROES PROGRAM Mr. Fortenberry. Mr. Secretary, pleasure to see you, and thank you all for coming today. And I regret our time is so compressed. So I am going to throw out a few points for your consideration, and you might not have time to respond. First of all, Hiring Our Heroes. Thank you for partnering that. This is very important. It is an absolute scandal that there is an 11 percent unemployment rate among veterans, perhaps higher given that the national average is perhaps 8 percent or higher. We had a very successful event back in my district in Nebraska. The willingness of the private sector to partner to look for people with leadership and technical skills that are coming out of the military I think is something that we must continue to unpack and expand and promote. Good program. So thank you for working on that. CONSTRUCTION BACKLOGS I have a question regarding the current capacity of our system. If we are at a high water mark in terms of the number of veterans coming through, what those projections look like over time. And that, of course, begs questions about future capacity and shifts of capacity. Related to that, in Omaha we have got a VA Hospital where the operation room is closed because it is potentially dangerous because of the shabby condition of it. The new hospital in Omaha is at least 10, perhaps 15 or maybe more years away in terms of construction. You have got a lot of projects ahead of that, many of which are concentrated in California. It would be helpful for us to continue to understand, you know, how we move forward in a more aggressive way to get a facility that makes sense there. I have a related question regarding how the VA is beginning to look creatively at partnering with other institutions to carry on the important legacy of targeted services in the medical sphere for veterans, exclusively for veterans, but perhaps in full partnership with other institutions that could actually help you deliver effective services and save money. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Culberson. The vote is closed. So we will recess. I think there will be a couple of members coming back to ask additional questions. Thank you very much. The committee will stand in recess. Thank you. [Recess.] Mr. Culberson. The Committee will come to order. We want to thank each of you for your patience while we went to that series of votes. And the chair recognizes at this time my good friend from Mississippi, Mr. Nunnelee. Mr. Nunnelee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I really do appreciate your staying around to be able to address some very important issues. Sonny Montgomery was a man who served honorably in this body, and dedicated his entire career to making sure that veterans had the benefits and care that they had earned. We have a hospital in Mississippi that bears his name. In March, the Office of the Special Counsel, whose responsibility is to handle complaints from whistleblowers, issued a report. And I will just quote from that report. Ms. Carolyn Lerner says that, ``Collectively, these disclosures raise questions about the inability of this facility to care for veterans and its services.'' And I understand that investigations are still underway. We may be moving in the right direction, but we have a long, long way to go. SPECIAL COUNSEL'S INVESTIGATION Our veterans deserve the best medical services. And I am not really sure why we have these same problems year in and year out. I will give you a chance to respond to the overall issues raised in that report, but I would also like you to respond specifically. Can somebody give me an update on the Special Counsel's investigation on the failure of the VA radiologists to properly read or even read at all thousands of x-rays and MRIs? And have the affected patients been contacted? Secretary Shinseki. Congressman, let me call on Dr. Petzel to provide a response here. Dr. Petzel. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Congressman Nunnelee, to respond directly and specifically to the issue of radiology, this is a three-year-old item that has been investigated by the VA and by the Inspector General on three different occasions, and have verified the fact there was really, in essence, no patient harm. The Special Counsel has asked us to take another look at it. And we are having another external review of the radiographs that were called into question. But to speak a little bit more broadly about Jackson, we obviously are committed to providing the very best care we can for America's veterans, and ensuring that that care meets the highest standards of quality. The VA has a national reputation for the quality and safety of its programs. The issues that have been raised there by the Special Counsel, there were five of them, three have been closed, two are in the very end stages of investigation and being closed. New management there I think has addressed the problems that existed. And the hospital is now a very, very good hospital. Its quality scores over the last year are excellent. It has been reviewed by 48 external agencies and groups in the last 18 months, all of which have given it a very clean bill of health, including the Joint Commission. This is a good hospital. Mr. Nunnelee. So as a follow-up, you say there was no patient harm. Is it the VA's contention that these allegations that these x-rays and MRIs that were alleged were not read were in fact read? Or are you saying that they were not read and there was no patient harm in the fact that these were not properly read? Dr. Petzel. Congressman, there were x-rays that were not read, or maybe not read properly. What I am saying is that as a result of that, there was no patient harm. Mr. Nunnelee. Now I am really confused. If I am a patient and my x-rays are not read, how can there be no harm? Dr. Petzel. It may have been a routine chest x-ray. First of all, let me make it clear, we don't want anybody's x-rays to not be read in a timely fashion. And that is not the case at the Jackson VA any longer. But if it is a routine chest x-ray and it is not read, or it is read a week or two weeks later, that is not going to harm the patient. Mr. Nunnelee. Is that the same expectation that you would have in a civilian hospital, that you have routine x-rays that are never read? Dr. Petzel. Oh, absolutely not. As I just said prior to that statement, that we expect the x-rays to be read the same day in a timely fashion, absolutely. And that is the standard that Jackson is performing at right now. Mr. Nunnelee. But there is no patient harm if the x-rays were not read? Dr. Petzel. The example I gave, I think, Congressman Nunnelee, stands. VETERANS ADMINISTRATION'S IG REPORT Mr. Nunnelee. All right. Let me move onto a second report. The Veterans Administration Office of the Inspector General issued another report with several areas of deficiencies, including deficiencies in cleanliness, medications not having proper labels, et cetera. What is being done in that--in the area to address that report? Dr. Petzel. Congressman Nunnelee, could you give me a little bit more specifics about what that investigation was? Mr. Nunnelee. All right. I have in front of me, the Veterans Affairs Office of the Inspector General report dated February 17, 2013. Eight evaluations. It says five were not reported in a timely manner. In addition, for all 12 months the standard of continuing care stay reviews was not met. In addition, regarding the facilities' ability to maintain a clean and safe health care environment, the Office of the Inspector General had several findings, including two of nine areas that were inspected that were not clean, and in four units medication bottles did not have the proper labeling or expiration dates. Dr. Petzel. Congressman, I understand now. You are talking about the comprehensive three-year review that the Inspector General does, we call it the CAP review. That was actually a very good CAP review report. There were some findings. There were fewer findings than we see on average in a CAP review around the country. And the organization, the medical center, now has in place a solution to fixing each one of those individual recommendations. We rely on the CAP reviews to help us ensure that we are doing the high quality care that we expect to do and that our veterans deserve. And we take those recommendations that they come up with very seriously. But this was, in essence, a good CAP review for the Jackson Medical Center. It is one of the external reviews that I referred to earlier. OBTAINING ACCESS TO SPECIALISTS Mr. Nunnelee. All right. And Mr. Secretary, I have got a more general question. I continue to hear from veterans that I represent that have great difficulty in obtaining access to specialists, as opposed to general care. And I still haven't figured out why that is occurring. Are you aware of other problems around the Nation with access to specialty medical care? Secretary Shinseki. Congressman, I would say that if you were to look back over the past 4 years, a tremendous investment on our part is to provide tele-health, telemedicine connection for wherever a veteran enters our health care system, and there is not a specialist located at that facility. There is always a need, even with the number of specialists we have, we don't have them in each outpatient clinic. Wherever they enter, they can have access to that distant location where the specialist may be located. This year we are investing another $460 million to make this vibrant connection between our hospitals, our community- based outpatient clinics that are located in communities where veterans live, 300 or so vet centers, and probably 80 mobile vans that travel to the most remote areas. All of this is connected by tele-health, telemedicine hookups to address the problem that you brought up. As I say, a veteran, no matter where he or she lives, deserves to have access to the best health care we have in our system, whether they are in a remote rural area or in the suburbs of Washington, DC. That is my personal goal. Mr. Nunnelee. Well, thank you. And as has been articulated by other members of this subcommittee, I look forward to working with you to make sure that the men and women who have defended freedom get every bit of the benefits in health care that they have earned. Thank you. Secretary Shinseki. Thank you, Congressman. Mr. Culberson. Thank you very much, Mr. Nunnelee. Mr. Fattah. Mr. Fattah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I think that the work that you have done has been extraordinary given the challenges that the VA faced when you walked in the door. After having an entirely paper-based system, the fact that you are now processing over a million claims a year. There is every reason for us to believe that you are going to be able to achieve your goals by 2015. So I want to thank you not only for your previous service, which has always been heralded, but also your current service leading the VA. The chairman and I work together on another subcommittee, and we created a neuroscience collaboration among a number of agencies that has been in place for the last year. The VA has been one of the leading participants looking at a whole set of initiatives around what we can do about hundreds of brain diseases and disorders. And I want to thank the chairman publicly for his help. There is always this notion around here that we don't act in bipartisan ways. And it is actually not the truth. We get a lot done. EPILEPSY CENTERS AND TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURIES This is an initiative that I have talked to you about over breakfast. In addition to your work with the Epilepsy Centers for Excellence and the other work on TBI, traumatic brain injuries, there are in your budget a number of important areas that we want to continue to make sure receive the appropriate level of support. I think that the public is not aware that a large percentage of our returning veterans who have been injured have also suffered brain injuries. I was at the Intrepid Center, looking at some of the work being done there. If you could make some comments on the record about this particular area of work. Because it has applications not just inside the VA for the veterans you are serving, but also for the general public. Because as you know, there are 1.8 million traumatic brain injuries in the civilian population, young people a lot of times who are engaged in a lot of activities end up being injured. So a lot of what you have learned is applicable over on the civilian side too. So thank you for your testimony today. I would be glad to hear your response. Secretary Shinseki. Congressman, I am going to call on Dr. Petzel here to provide some detail specifically about the research on the brain. I would just say overall, we are requesting for this year, $586 million in 2014 for research projects. We have probably, in priority, about 2,200 projects that we have identified we want to work on. Things we go after are the unique needs of veterans. That usually refers to PTSD and traumatic brain injury. Also pain and prosthetics, with focus on veterans coming out of the current conflicts, Iraq and Afghanistan. What we learn there in prosthetics applies to vast generations. Also homelessness and women veterans research. We know that in VA we are about 6 percent women veterans today. In the active force, it is 15 percent. We know there is a flow of veterans coming to us. We don't have a lot of background and research on women's health issues. We need to be out ahead of this. So that is another priority. Let me ask Dr. Petzel specifically to address the brain research. Mr. Fattah. Thank you. Dr. Petzel. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Congressman Fattah, I want to thank you and the Chairman for your interest and your energy around the brain sciences and the research efforts around brain sciences. This is an effort that is certainly going to very directly affect the health and the well-being of America's veterans, for reasons such as you cited earlier, including the number of people that are returning with brain injuries of some kind. There are 50,000 people who have been evaluated for mild to moderate traumatic brain injury; 34,000 veterans have been positive. So this is really going to have an impact on our community. And we appreciate it. I will just tell you briefly how the VA is engaged in this effort. First of all, we have about $123 million worth of research that is being directed at mental health issues, many of which will have direct impact on the neuroscience research projects that are going on. DOD and the Department of Veterans Affairs are engaged in a joint effort, under the aegis of the President's executive order, to each commit $50,000 over 5 years to efforts to develop research in PTSD and traumatic brain injury, specifically focusing on trying to develop biologic markers for those two illnesses. This will assist us in making the diagnosis, and to mark the progress in therapy with these veteran patients who have come back from war with these unseen injuries. Mr. Fattah. Thank you. And just to clean the record, you meant $50 million each. Dr. Petzel. I did. What did I say? Mr. Fattah. Fifty thousand. Dr. Petzel. Oh, yes, thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. Fattah. You know, my father was a veteran, and my father-in-law, and my brother served. The VA means so much to so many of our fellow citizens in terms of the range of its services. I have a young man in my office in Philadelphia who handles veterans affairs who served in multiple tours in Iraq and was injured in his last tour. Some 59 operations later he is healthy, and has got a better golf score than me. He just got married. He is going to have his first child, and is in graduate school. All of this because of the work that the VA is making possible in terms of his continued care. That represents a story that you could tell all over the country. And even as we talk about this backlog, I want to make sure that the record is clear that for each returning veteran, there is 5 years of health care. This is without having to do with the processing of their claims. So their health needs are being met immediately. Is that correct? Secretary Shinseki. That is correct, Congressman. Mr. Fattah. So I want to thank the chairman and the ranking member for holding this hearing and dealing with this. There is no more important subject matter. And again, let me thank you publicly for you and Chairman Wolf, and your willingness to work with me on this neuroscience initiative, which I think is going to vastly improve our ability to address a whole host of challenges related to brain diseases and disorders. Thank you. Mr. Culberson. It is tremendously important work that I am proud to work with you on. And it is also a pleasure to work with you in support of the sciences, the medical and scientific research that we both have a real passion for on that committee, the space program. We do. The press is not accurate, the public is of the impression we don't work together, and actually we do. Mr. Fattah. We have done some great work together, and it is going to be meaningful in millions of people's lives. So thank you. Mr. Culberson. Absolutely. We do appreciate it. I also really appreciate Mr. Fattah bringing home a point that I can't reemphasize enough, and that is the tremendous successes, what a blessing you are for the lives of so many veterans and their families and the health care that you provide. I also hear almost nothing but glowing reports of the work that is done by the VA hospitals. We are all frustrated with the backlog of disability claims, but that is a separate issue. As Mr. Fattah said, it is from the health care that you provide as the veteran leaves the service and goes into a VA Hospital. The DeBakey facility that is in Houston, Texas, I hear just nothing but rave reviews and great work that is being done down there. I thank all of you in public, and to reiterate my good friend's quite appropriate comments. Because we are all so stirred up about the disability claims, we neglected and should have focused on just saying thank you again, A, for all that you do, B, certainly for that health care service that you provide. And all the help that we can provide you to speed up the disability process. SINGLE MEDICAL HEALTH RECORD Thank you. I would like to, if I could, we are going to have to clear the committee room here shortly, but I did want follow up, if I could, Secretary Shinseki, and it would be very, very helpful I think for the record and for moving forward on the unified medical record. I wanted to ask you, sir, if you could definitively and clearly endorse for the record: do you believe it would be a good idea for there to be a common system chosen by both Departments, DOD and VA? And I would like you to just be very clear. And we hope you would endorse and support that idea. And if both Departments do not choose a common system, why shouldn't Congress insist that they do so? Secretary Shinseki. I think Congress has registered their concerns and interests on this in prior hearings. And I think, Mr. Chairman, that is reflected in the actions of Secretary Gates and I, Secretary Panetta and I, and now about to enter into our discussions with Secretary Hagel. We have committed to a single joint common integrated electronic health record. We don't want to have two systems. We are working on how to put this in place. We have also committed, our two departments, in past discussions, to an initial operating capability in San Antonio and in the Tidewater region of Virginia with initial operating capability in 2014. There is an expectation that we are going to show some progress. Mr. Culberson. And you share the opinion it would be far better, far more beneficial to veterans and better for the taxpayers that DOD and VA operate one system. Secretary Shinseki. I agree with that. Mr. Culberson. Are you aware of any technical reasons why one system could not be adapted to meet the needs of both Departments? Secretary Shinseki. I am not aware of impediments. Are there opportunities to improve what we have? That will be ongoing, Mr. Chairman. When we in VA first fielded this electronic health record in 1997, it took us perhaps 7 years to get it fully up and running and integrated throughout our operations. It cost about $4 billion, but the return on investment has been $7 billion. Our health care quality has gone up, safety has gone up because physicians have access to a medical record that they had probably access on 60 percent of the time. Our vaccinations for veterans over 65 was trailing the country in 1997. Today we lead the country, well into the 90s. So it has a cost benefit, a health care benefit, and provides safety to veterans. I think this is all good news for what we are trying to accomplish here. COST TO MODERNIZE VISTA ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORDS Mr. Culberson. How much, Mr. Secretary, do you anticipate it will cost to make the necessary modernizations to your VistA electronic health record? And now that you and the DOD have decided to go two different paths, your budget requests $344 million for the electronic health record. Do you expect that number to change as DOD selects its own system? Secretary Shinseki. I await a discussion with Secretary Hagel--since this is a joint project--on how these numbers will shake out, but our 2014 budget request accommodates what we expect is our need, and that is $344 million that will cover our requirements in 2014. Mr. Culberson. Well, I know the Congress, all of us, feel very strongly we need a unified medical record and hope you will continue to pursue that, and we will certainly help you with it. Let me ask a couple of quick questions for my good friend and colleague Bill Young, and then pass back to my good friend from Georgia. Chairman Young has asked--he is not here today and regrets it very much because he is chairing a hearing of a subcommittee with the commanders of U.S. Central Command and our forces in Afghanistan; however, he did ask me if I could ask you to comment on three issues. POINTS SYSTEM TO MEASURE PERFORMANCE Chairman Young understands that the point system that is being used to measure the output of claims processes has resulted in some employees cherry-picking claims, going through the easy ones first because they can get more points for them. Chairman Young has asked for your thoughts on this system and how widely used the point system is within the VA system. Secretary Shinseki. I am going to call on Secretary Hickey here to provide some detail. I would just say, Mr. Chairman, that when we imposed the Agent Orange decision, it slowed things down, and so we are now trying to get the oldest claims moving. I think there is a good opportunity to do this. I don't profess to know everything that goes on in the claims processing business. I have not heard of the cherry-picking phrase, but let me just ask Secretary Hickey to comment. Ms. Hickey. Thank you, Chairman, for the question. We do rely on a point system for doing claims and for production requirements for our staff; however, we have heavy engagement and oversight from our coaches, who are in supervisory positions within those smaller teams. They are engaged in actually making sure work is distributed in a fair and equitable way. We are also looking at, how we are moving into a new environment and where our productivity is increasing. We are now in our new segmented lanes across the board 9 months ahead of plan, in express, core, and special lanes of operation. We are also in conversations with our employees' representatives on what we can do around our point systems to increase productivity with our employees and to also focus heavily on quality. Secretary Shinseki. If I could just add to that. Mr. Culberson. Certainly. Secretary Shinseki. One of the benefits of having an automation system is that, to the question you asked, we can now see individual performance by our claims adjudicators, and we can begin to focus in on what is going on. Right now with all that paper, it is hard to see, and you get anecdotal reports, and then you go charge off to check. One of the benefits here of the automation system, which is what we want, is to be able to manage and be able to acknowledge where we have issues, and we have to go to work on. PAPERLESS CLAIMS SYSTEM Mr. Culberson. Chairman Young has also asked about the paperless claims system, and he is being told by constituents that are concerned that the system is actually slowing down the claims process. Could you comment on that, and also whether or not you have found it difficult to hire enough people? He is wondering is there a staffing problem within the VA disability system, Ms. Hickey, and if so, what are you doing to solve the problem? So if you could answer those two about slowing down the paperless process, slowing down the claims process and staffing. Secretary Shinseki. We are fielding a new system, and as you field, I do think you have a little degradation in the work efficiency. I mean, for those of us that have gotten a new computer with a new program on it or even changed our password, instead where the old password is, automatic--with a quick run of the fingers, the new password slows us down until we get into the rhythm of it. I think the man-machine interface here is true. There is a little bit of degradation, but once you get through that period, and it is a short period, the power of the microprocessor gives you a much better return for that momentary loss of efficiency. Let me turn to Secretary Hickey for the second part of the question. Ms. Hickey. Chairman, we are actually staffed at 101.4 percent of our authorization, and so we are fully staffed. Our attrition rate, frankly, in VBA is very low. In fact, the standard for all Federal Government is 17 percent. Right now our attrition is about 6 percent. We are hiring a lot of veterans. In fact, last year, fiscal year 2012, 82 percent of everyone we hired in our regional offices was a veteran. We are very focused on bringing veterans into the work environment and also into an environment where they continue to care for one another. Mr. Culberson. That is marvelous. I deeply appreciate your service to the country. Mr. Bishop, any further questions? Mr. Bishop. I will have some further questions for the record. We will submit them to the record. Mr. Bishop. Let me thank all of you for your attendance, Mr. Secretary, and we know that you have a very, very difficult challenge that you face in behalf of looking after those who have looked after us. You know that all too well. So we look forward to continuing to work with you to meet these challenges, but we cannot at all not hold ourselves, hold the Department accountable for taking care of the veterans, because they have sacrificed so much for the freedoms that we enjoy, and we want to make sure that we do right by them. Mr. Culberson. Thank you very much. And I do want to reiterate Mr. Bishop's gratitude. We admire you deeply, appreciate so very much your service to the country, and look forward to working with you to help you make sure that our veterans have the best health care in the country. Secretary Shinseki. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to both you and the ranking member, for support over a number of years now, and I want to assure you, we are sighted on what is right, and that is to take care of this claims backlog. We have a plan. This year's budget looks for resources to allow us to do that. So thank you very much for your support. Mr. Culberson. Thank you very much, sir, and the hearing is adjourned. Thank you. [Questions for the record follow:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]