[House Hearing, 113 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] THREATS FROM SPACE: A REVIEW OF U.S. GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO TRACK AND MITIGATE ASTEROIDS AND METEORS (PART I & PART II) ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ TUESDAY, MARCH 19, 2013 and WEDNESDAY, APRIL 10, 2013 __________ Serial No. 113-14 and Serial No. 113-17 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 80-552 WASHINGTON : 2013 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Printing Office. Phone 202�09512�091800, or 866�09512�091800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair DANA ROHRABACHER, California EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas RALPH M. HALL, Texas ZOE LOFGREN, California F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois Wisconsin DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California PAUL C. BROUN, Georgia DAN MAFFEI, New York STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi ALAN GRAYSON, Florida MO BROOKS, Alabama JOSEPH KENNEDY III, Massachusetts RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois SCOTT PETERS, California LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana DEREK KILMER, Washington STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas AMI BERA, California BILL POSEY, Florida ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming MARC VEASEY, Texas DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona JULIA BROWNLEY, California Thomas Massie, Kentucky MARK TAKANO, California KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota VACANCY JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma RANDY WEBER, Texas CHRIS STEWART, Utah VACANCY C O N T E N T S Tuesday, March 19, 2013 Page Witness List..................................................... 2 Hearing Charter.................................................. 3 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 5 Written Statement............................................ 6 Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives............................................. 6 Written Statement............................................ 7 Statement by Representative Donna F. Edwards, Committee on Science, Space and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives... 8 Written Statement............................................ 8 Witnesses: The Honorable John P. Holdren, Director, Office of Science and Technology Policy, Executive Office of the President Oral Statement............................................... 10 Written Statement............................................ 12 Gen. William L. Shelton, Commander, U.S. Air Force Space Command Oral Statement............................................... 19 Written Statement............................................ 20 The Honorable Charles F. Bolden, Jr., Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space Administration Oral Statement............................................... 27 Written Statement............................................ 30 Discussion....................................................... 38 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions The Honorable John P. Holdren, Director, Office of Science and Technology Policy, Executive Office of the President........... 64 Gen. William L. Shelton, Commander, U.S. Air Force Space Command. 73 The Honorable Charles F. Bolden, Jr., Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space Administration........................... 82 Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record Submitted statement by Representative Steve Stockman, Committee on Science, Space and Technology............................... 94 Letter submitted by Dr. Dante Lauretta, Department of Planetary Sciences, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory....................... 95 Additional responses submitted by The Honorable Charles F. Bolden, Jr., Administrator, National Aeronautics and Space Administration................................................. 97 C O N T E N T S Wednesday, April 10, 2013 Page Witness List..................................................... 102 Hearing Charter.................................................. 103 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 105 Written Statement............................................ 105 Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives............................................. 106 Written Statement............................................ 107 Witnesses: Dr. Ed Lu, Chairman and CEO, B612 Foundation Oral Statement............................................... 108 Written Statement............................................ 112 Dr. Donald K. Yeomans, Manager, Near-Earth Objects Program Office, Jet Propulsion Laboratory Oral Statement............................................... 117 Written Statement............................................ 119 Dr. Michael F. A'Hearn, Vice-Chair, Committee to Review Near- Earth Object Surveys and Hazard Mitigation Strategies, National Resource Council Oral Statement............................................... 126 Written Statement............................................ 128 Discussion....................................................... 136 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Dr. Ed Lu, Chairman and CEO, B612 Foundation..................... 150 Dr. Donald K. Yeomans, Manager, Near-Earth Objects Program Office, Jet Propulsion Laboratory.............................. 156 Dr. Michael F. A'Hearn, Vice-Chair, Committee to Review Near- Earth Object Surveys and Hazard Mitigation Strategies, National Resource Council............................................... 169 Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record Submitted statement by Representative Steve Stockman, Committee on Science, Space and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives 184 Submitted statement by Representative Donna F. Edwards, Committee on Science, Space and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives 186 Planetary Society Report submitted by Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives....................................... 187 THREATS FROM SPACE: A REVIEW OF U.S. GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO TRACK AND MITIGATE ASTEROIDS AND METEORS, PART I ---------- TUESDAY, MARCH 19, 2013 House of Representatives, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:11 a.m., in Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Lamar Smith [Chairman of the Committee] presiding.[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.002 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.003 Chairman Smith. The Committee on Science, Space, and Technology will come to order. Good morning. I am going to recognize myself for an opening statement, then the Ranking Member, the gentlewoman from Texas, will be recognized as well. Today's hearing is on a subject important to our Nation and to our world. This is the first hearing of two on space threats to Earth, reviewing U.S. Government efforts to track incoming asteroids and meteors. Although many may be only aware of this subject due to recent events, it is actually one as old as our planet. And I am going to hold up a copy of Time magazine from nearly 20 years ago where this topic was featured on the cover. Here is Time, ``Cosmic Crash.'' This is 20 years ago. I don't know if they were ahead of their time or not, but in any case, the subject has been around for a while. This was actually given to me by a former staff member, who I had research the subject 20 years ago as well. Though the issue has been around for a number of years, there are many questions still to be asked and answered. The range of questions are broad and complex, from how to track an object millions of miles away to how to respond if an asteroid or meteor is headed toward Earth. The two events of Friday, February 15, the harmless flyby of asteroid 2012 DA14 and the not-so-harmless impact of a meteor in Russia, are a stark reminder of the need to invest in space science. The asteroid passed just 17,000 miles from Earth, a distance less than the Earth's circumference. Fifty years ago, we would have had no way of seeing the asteroid coming, and even so, it was discovered by amateur astronomers. The United States has come a long way in its ability to track and characterize asteroids, meteors, comets and meteorites. But we still have a long way to go. NASA believes it has discovered 93 percent of the largest asteroids in near-Earth orbit, those 1 kilometer or larger, but what about the other seven percent remaining, about 70, or even those smaller than 1 kilometer, estimated to be in the thousands? An asteroid as small as 100 meters could destroy an entire city upon a direct hit. Are we tracking those? The meteor that struck Russia was estimated to be 17 meters, and wasn't tracked at all. The smaller they are, the harder they are to spot, and yet they can be life threatening. The broad scope of our efforts include participation of governments, research institutions, industries and amateur astronomers in their backyard or on home computers. Some space challenges require innovation, commitment and diligence. This is one of them. And this Committee will strive to continue to lead in this area. For all of the attention and publicity the two events of February 15 received, it was still too late for us to have acted to change the course of the incoming objects. We are in the same position today and for the foreseeable future unless we take actions now that improve our means of detection. Part of our discussion today is about how to achieve this in the current budget environment. I do not believe that NASA is going to somehow defy budget gravity and get an increase when everyone else is getting cuts. But we need to find ways to prioritize NASA's projects and squeeze as much productivity as we can out of the funds we have. Examining and exploring ways to protect the Earth from asteroids and meteors is a priority for the American people and should be a priority for NASA. We were fortunate that the events of last month were simply an interesting coincidence rather than a catastrophe. However, we still need to make investments and improvements in our capability to anticipate what may occur decades from now, or tomorrow. [The prepared statement of Mr. Smith follows:] Prepared Statement of Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology Good morning. Today's hearing is on a subject important to our nation and to our world. This is the first hearing of two on Space Threats to Earth, reviewing U.S. Government efforts to track incoming asteroids and meteors. Although many may be only aware of this subject due to recent events, it is actually one as old as our planet. This is a copy of TIME Magazine from nearly 20 years ago (1994) where this topic was featured on the cover. Though the issue has been around for a number of years, there are many questions still to be asked and answered. The range of questions are broad and complex, from how to track an object millions of miles away to how to respond if an asteroid or meteor is headed toward Earth. The two events of Friday, February 15--the harmless flyby of asteroid 2012 DA14 and the not so harmless impact of a meteor in Russia--are a stark reminder of the need to invest in space science. The asteroid passed just 17,000 miles from Earth, a distance less than the Earth's circumference. Fifty years ago, we would have had no way of seeing the asteroid coming, and even so it was discovered by amateur astronomers. The U.S. has come a long way in its ability to track and characterize asteroids, meteors, comets and meteorites. But we still have a long way to go. NASA believes it has discovered 93 percent of the largest asteroids in near-Earth orbit, those one kilometer or larger. But what about the other seven percent remaining, about 70, or even those smaller than one kilometer, estimated to be in the thousands? An asteroid as small as 100 meters could destroy an entire city upon a direct hit. Are we tracking those? The meteor that struck Russia was estimated to be 17 meters, and wasn't tracked at all. The smaller they are, the harder they are to spot, and yet they can be life-threatening. The broad scope of our efforts include participation of governments, research institutions, industries and amateur astronomers in their backyard or on home computers. Some space challenges require innovation, commitment and diligence. This is one of them. And this Committee will strive to continue to lead in this area. For all of the attention and publicity the two events of February 15 received, it was still too late for us to have acted to change the course of the incoming objects. We are in the same position today and for the foreseeable future unless we take actions now that improve our means of detection. Part of our discussion today is about how to achieve this in the current budget environment. I do not believe that NASA is going to somehow defy budget gravity and get an increase when everyone else is getting cuts. But we need to find ways to prioritize NASA's projects and squeeze as much productivity as we can out of the funds we have. Examining and exploring ways to protect the Earth from asteroids and meteors is a priority for the American people and should be a priority for NASA. We were fortunate that the events of last month were simply an interesting coincidence rather than a catastrophe. However, we still need to make investments and improvements in our capability to anticipate what may occur decades from now, or tomorrow. Chairman Smith. That concludes my opening statement, and the gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Johnson, is recognized for hers. Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and good morning. I would like to welcome each of our witnesses to today's hearing, and I would like to thank you for your patience as we postponed this hearing a couple weeks ago. As the chairman has indicated, this hearing was called in response to recent events in which a large meteor unexpectedly exploded in the sky over Russia, damaging property and injuring people at almost the same time that a small asteroid passed less than 18,000 miles from Earth's surface. While scientists indicate that those two events apparently were unrelated, they both serve as evidence that we live in an active solar system with potentially hazardous objects passing through our neighborhoods with surprising frequency. Indeed, there is increasing scientific evidence that impacts by large asteroids and comets have had profound consequences for life on Earth at various times in the past, even contributing to mass extinctions. While such events are very rare, they obviously can cause untold damage, and are not something we want to have happen if we can avoid it. I think it is our increased scientific understanding of near-Earth objects and their potential to impact the Earth that has led Congress to take this subject seriously in recent years. In that regard, this Committee has taken a leadership role on these issues dating back to the efforts of former Chairman George Brown, Jr. in the early 1990s, a time when references to killer asteroids could still lead to giggles and eye-rolling. Since then, Members on both sides of the aisle, including Representative Rohrabacher, former Chairman Hall and former Representative Giffords have taken an active and productive interest in this topic, and progress has been made. I hope that today's hearing will provide us with a good update on the Federal Government's efforts to detect, monitor and potentially mitigate such hazardous near-Earth objects. Much has been accomplished over the last decade, and I look forward to hearing about those efforts. In addition, I would like to know if there are additional steps that we should be taking as a country, whether an expanded detection program or international collaborations or other such measures. Well, we have much to discuss today and a distinguished panel of witnesses to help us in our oversight. I look forward to hearing from each of you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Johnson follows:] Prepared Statement of Ranking Member Eddie Bernice Johnson Good morning. I would like to welcome each of our witnesses to today's hearing. And I would like to thank you for your patience when we were forced to reschedule this hearing in the wake of the Washington snow event two weeks ago. As the Chairman has indicated, this hearing was called in response to recent events in which a large meteor unexpectedly exploded in the sky over Russia, damaging property and injuring people at almost the same time that a small asteroid passed less than 18,000 miles from Earth's surface. While scientists indicate that those two events apparently were unrelated, they both serve as evidence that we live in an active solar system, with potentially hazardous objects passing through our neighborhood with surprising frequency. Indeed, there is increasing scientific evidence that impacts by large asteroids and comets have had profound consequences for life on Earth at various times in the past, even contributing to mass extinctions. While such events are very rare, they obviously can cause untold damage, and are not something we want to have happen if we can avoid it. I think it is our increased scientific understanding of Near Earth Objects and their potential to impact the Earth that has led Congress to take this subject seriously in recent years. In that regard, this Committee has taken a leadership role on these issues dating back to the efforts of former Chairman George Brown, Jr. in the early 1990s--a time when references to ``killer asteroids'' could still lead to giggles and eye-rolling. Since then, Members on both sides of the aisle, including Rep. Rohrabacher, former Chairman Hall, and former Rep. Giffords have all taken an active and productive interest in this topic, and progress has been made. I hope that today's hearing will provide us with a good update on the federal government's efforts to detect, monitor, and potentially mitigate such hazardous Near Earth Objects. Much has been accomplished over the last decade, and I look forward to hearing about those efforts. In addition, I would like to know if there are additional steps that we should be taking as a country, whether an expanded detection program or international collaborations or other such measures. Well, we have much to discuss today and a distinguished panel of witnesses to help us in our oversight. I look forward to hearing from each of you. Ms. Johnson. At this point I would like to yield the remaining part of my time to Ms. Edwards, the Ranking Member of the Space Subcommittee, for her comments. Ms. Edwards. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to note for the record, Madam Chairwoman, that this hearing is part one of the Committee's examination of activities related to near-Earth objects. Subcommittee Chairman Palazzo and I will hold a hearing of part two in early April, and so this will be a continuation. And I wanted to note for the record, Madam Chairwoman, that just a month ago after the events that made the news, my colleague, Rush Holt, who is a physicist here in Congress and former Assistant Director of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, and I coauthored an op-ed that appeared in the Washington Post on February 15 trying to put into plain language what the challenges are, the research challenges, what the threats are so that the American people have some understanding that as both the ranking member and the chairman have noted is not new for this Committee but poses challenges for the American people, especially when it comes to resources. I think it is very fitting that this Committee is considering U.S. government agency roles and responsibilities in near-Earth object detection, tracking and mitigation, not only because of the recent events, but because we have been at the forefront in setting the U.S. policy on near-Earth objects for the past two decades, and it was this Committee that formulated the provisions in 2008, NASA authorization and subsequent policy direction that called for the Office of Science and Technology Policy to develop policies on emergency response and to recommend a lead agency for protecting the United States, and this depended on NASA, who we always seem to call for 911 assistance in all space matters is in stark contrast to the across-the-board cuts that NASA programs now face under law. And so Mr. Chairman, I am struck by how this complex planetary protection issue is and how much farther we need to go, and I am looking forward to today's testimony, and with that I yield. [The prepared statement of Ms. Edwards follows:] Prepared Statement of Representative Donna F. Edwards Thank you, Ranking Member Johnson. It should be noted that this hearing is Part 1 of the Committee's examination of activities related to near-Earth objects (NEOs). Subcommittee Chairman Palazzo and I will hold Part 2 in early April. It is fitting that this Committee is considering U.S. government agency roles and responsibilities in NEO detection, tracking, and mitigation, not only because of the recent events, but because this Committee has been at the forefront in setting the U.S. policy on NEOs for the past two decades. The Committee's focus, beginning in the 1990s, has led to NASA's establishment of a system for detection and tracking of large NEOs, such as the 2012 DA14 asteroid. And it was this Committee that formulated the provisions in the 2008 NASA Authorization that called for the Office of Science and Technology Policy to develop policies on emergency response and to recommend a lead agency (or agencies) for protecting the United States from a NEO that is expected to collide with Earth and, if necessary, for implementing a deflection campaign, in consultation with international bodies. As we will hear today from Dr. Holdren, NASA has a key role. That should not come as a surprise. NASA's combined scientific, technical, and engineering capability is absolutely essential to informing critical decisions on mitigation of a potentially hazardous object. This dependence on NASA, who we always seem to call for 911 assistance in all space matters, is in stark contrast to the across- the-board sequester cuts to NASA's programs that are now law. Mr. Chairman, I am struck with how complex this planetary protection issue is and how much farther we need to go. That is why Congress needs to ensure continued investment in and attention to efforts that will address the potential threats of near-Earth objects. I look forward to hearing from our distinguished group of panelists on the priorities for Congress going forward. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. Thanks, Ms. Edwards. Without objection, other Members' opening statements will be made a part of the record. Our first witness is the Hon. John P. Holdren. Dr. Holdren serves as the Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy, the Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, and Co-Chair of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. Prior to his current appointment, he was a professor in both the Kennedy School of Government and the Department of Earth Science at Harvard. Dr. Holdren graduated from M.I.T. with degrees in aerospace engineering and theoretical plasma physics. General William L. Shelton is the Commander of the United States Air Force Space Command. Prior to assuming his current position, General Shelton was the Assistance Vice Chief of Staff and the Director of the Air Staff at the Pentagon. He currently organizes, equips, trains and maintains mission-ready space and cyberspace forces and capabilities for the North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Strategic Command. General Shelton graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy with a bachelor's degree in astronautical engineering. He also holds a master's degree in this field from the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. Our final witness is the Hon. Charles F. Bolden, Jr., the Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Administrator Bolden served as a pilot in the Marine Corps, eventually earning the rank of General. In the course of his military career, he participated in several international campaigns. He also tested a variety of ground- attack aircraft until his selection as an astronaut candidate in 1980. Administrator Bolden held a number of positions at NASA. He was able to participate in and support several space shuttle flights, and he traveled to orbit four times aboard the Space Shuttle, twice as a mission commander. For his many achievements, Administrator Bolden was inducted into the U.S. Astronaut Hall of Fame in May of 2006. He earned a bachelor's degree in electrical science from the U.S. Naval Academy and a master's degree in systems management from the University of Southern California. We welcome you all. Thank you for being here. And Director Holdren, if you will begin? TESTIMONY OF THE HON. JOHN P. HOLDREN, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY POLICY, EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT Dr. Holdren. Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Johnson, Members of the Committee, I am pleased to be here today to discuss U.S. activities to detect, to track, to characterize near-Earth objects, or NEOs, and to develop the capability to deflect any of dangerous size that are discovered to be on a collision course with the Earth. This is, of course, a particularly timely topic for reasons that all of you mentioned in your opening statements. Near-Earth objects are defined as those whose orbits bring them within about 31 million miles of the Earth, a third of the distance to the sun, some of them traveling close enough to make an eventual collision a possibility. Those with maximum physical dimension of more than a meter are generally referred to as either asteroids or comets, while smaller objects are referred to as meteoroids. All are called meteors upon fiery transit of the Earth's atmosphere, and the pieces that strike the surface are called meteorites. Dozens of asteroids a meter or more in size enter the Earth's atmosphere each year, of which only one on the average is as big as 4 meters. Asteroids of these sizes burn up harmlessly high in the atmosphere. Damage on Earth's surface is likely only when the kinetic energy of the object is in the range of a few hundreds of kilotons of TNT equivalent or above. That corresponds at typical closing velocities to a stony asteroid about 15 meters in equivalent diameter. The 17-meter asteroid that blew up over Russia on February 15 released about 440 kilotons of energy. Asteroids with that much energy strike the Earth only every 100 years or so. Larger events like the 1908 asteroid explosion over Siberia, which released about 15 megatons of energy and leveled trees over an area of more than 850 square miles, are believed to be once-in- a-thousand-years events. If an asteroid explosion of that size were to occur over an urban area, it could cause hundreds of thousands of casualties, but the probability of this occurring is much smaller than the one-in-a-thousand-years probability I just mentioned for one hitting the Earth at all, and that is because land covers only 30 percent of the area of the Earth and urbanized areas cover only two to three percent of the land area. As a result, the odds of a near-Earth object strike causing massive casualties and destruction of infrastructure are very small, but the potential consequences of such an event are so large that it makes sense to take the risk seriously. Both the Congress and recent Administrations have done so. In 1998, Congress tasked NASA with locating within 10 years at least 90 percent of all NEOs with a diameter of 1 kilometer or greater, those with the potential to threaten civilization, and in 2005, Congress directed NASA to detect, track, catalog and characterize 90 percent of all NEOs with a diameter of 140 meters or greater by 2020. The 1-kilometer goal was achieved in 2011. The task of detecting 90 percent of NEOs larger than 140 meters is much more challenging but work on it is proceeding apace. More recent legislation directed the Office of Science and Technology Policy to develop a policy for notifying relevant authorities of an impending threat, to recommend a Federal entity responsible for protecting the Nation from an expected NEO collision, and to implement a policy of threat notification. In an October 2010 letter to this Committee, I reported on our progress on those tasks. The budget for NASA's Near-Earth Object Observation program has actually increased about fivefold since 2009 from a little less than $4 million to $20.5 million in Fiscal Year 2012. Beyond detection and tracking of potentially threatening objects, moreover, the Administration is committed to exploring and developing the capabilities necessary to protect the Earth in general and the United States in particular from NEO threats. NASA coordinates this work with the Departments of Defense, State and Homeland Security including the latter's Federal Emergency Management Agency. I thank the Committee for its continued support and its interest in this issue, and I will be pleased to take any questions that the Members may have. [The prepared statement of Dr. Holdren follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.007 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.010 Chairman Smith. Thank you, Dr. Holdren. General Shelton. TESTIMONY OF GEN. WILLIAM L. SHELTON, COMMANDER, U.S. AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND General Shelton. Mr. Chairman, Representative Johnson and distinguished Members of the Committee, it is an honor to appear before you today. It is also a privilege to appear with my colleagues and teammates in the space community. Space situational awareness underpins our entire spectrum of space activities, and Air Force Space Command is proud of our crucial role in monitoring activity in the space domain. Specifically, we provide capabilities employed ultimately by United States Strategic Command to detect, track, identify and characterize human-made objects in Earth orbit. Our sensors also are capable of detecting natural phenomena like bolides. However, the Nation's current capability to track asteroids is dependent upon NASA and other organizations such as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Lincoln Laboratory. For example, during the recent asteroid 2012 DA14 event, the Joint Space Operations Center at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California used tracking data from NASA's Near Earth Object Program Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to perform collision avoidance screenings to ensure the safety of our satellites. We remain committed to working closely with our partners to ensure comprehensive space situational awareness for the Nation. I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you, and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of General Shelton follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.017 Chairman Smith. Thank you, General Shelton. Administrator Bolden. TESTIMONY OF THE HON. CHARLES F. BOLDEN, JR., ADMINISTRATOR, NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION General Bolden. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity also to appear today to discuss the topic of near-Earth objects, and before I formally begin, Mr. Chairman, I would like to congratulate you on your appointment as the new Chairman of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee, and I look forward to working with you in that capacity. I would also like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Congresswoman Edwards and Congressman Holt, who is not here, for the recent op-eds that you wrote that called more attention to this for the American public, which I think is really important. The events of February 15, 2013, were a stark reminder of why NASA has for years devoted a great deal of attention to near-Earth objects and why this hearing is so timely and important. The events of February 15 also highlight the wisdom of Congress, the Administration and NASA in enabling a human exploration of an asteroid. The predicted close approach of a small asteroid called 2012 DA14 and the unpredicted entry and explosion of a very small asteroid about 15 miles above Russia that Dr. Holdren talked about earlier have focused a great deal of public attention on the necessity of tracking asteroids and other near-Earth objects and protecting our planet from them, something this Committee and NASA have been working on for over 15 years. Again, NASA has been focused on tracking asteroids and protecting our home planet from them well before these recent events. In fact, NASA's focus in this area is evident from our fivefold increase in near-Earth object budgets since 2010, and literally dozens of people are involved with some aspect of our NEO research across NASA and its field centers. In addition to the resources NASA puts into understanding asteroids, the agency partners with university astronomers, space science institutes and other agencies across the country that are working to track and better understand these near- Earth objects, often with grants, interagency transfers and other contracts from NASA. The new public attention is not hard to understand. The coincidence of having these two very rare events happening on the same day along with the unfortunate injuries of over 1,000 people on the ground in Russia made this a very big news event. However, we should remember that the probability of any sizable NEO impacting the Earth any time in the next 100 years is extremely remote. To put these two recent events in context, very small objects enter the Earth's atmosphere all the time. Current estimates are that on average, about 80 tons of material in the form of dust grains and small meteoroids enter the Earth's atmosphere every single day, objects the size of a basketball arrive once a day, and objects as large as a car arrive about once per week. Our Earth's atmosphere protects us from these small objects, so nearly all are destroyed before hitting the ground and pose no threat to life here on Earth. However, the potential consequences of a significant impact are potentially very great indeed. Consistent with NASA's role as established by Congress and prescribed in the President's National Space Policy, NASA has taken a leadership role to pursue capabilities to detect, track and characterize near-Earth objects to reduce the risk of harm to humans from an unexpected impact on our planet. NASA is also developing new vehicles and capabilities including Orion and the Multipurpose Crew Vehicle and the Space Launch System, which will enable human exploration of the solar system beyond low-Earth orbit. As the President stated in his April 15, 2010, speech at the Kennedy Space Center, NASA's intention is to ``send astronauts to an asteroid for the first time in history'' and NASA is working to accomplish this mission by 2025. In fact, NASA leads the world in the detection and characterization of NEOs and is responsible for the discovery of about 98 percent of all known NEOs. Now, here I will take a risk. There should be a chart coming up very soon. It is. Thank you. As shown in this graphic, the cumulative discovery of near-Earth asteroids started picking up dramatically in 1998 with the start of NASA's Spaceguard Search program, and the number of known near- Earth asteroids has grown from a few hundred to nearly 10,000 in just 15 years, and I think it is not insignificant that it goes almost asymptotic when you look at 2005 when the Congress, NASA and the Administration really picked up the emphasis on that. NASA continues to make progress toward the goals set for us by the Congress. To date, over 9,600 near-Earth asteroids of all sizes have been found. Larger asteroids pose a greater threat to the planet as a whole, and the percentage of asteroids we have identified tracks this relationship. We found 95 percent of the largest NEOs over 1 kilometer in size. Our current estimate is that we have also found about 60 percent of the NEOs that are between 300 meters and 1 kilometer. As the graphic shows, we still have some work to do to find NEOs in the 140-meter class, and the next graphic please. You can see here the total discovered per size and you can see where we are lacking as the sizes go down. Our remote ground-based observations of comets and asteroids have been augmented by close-up reconnaissance data from our science missions. From 1997 to 2001, NASA's near-Earth asteroid rendezvous flyby flew by two main asteroid belts before orbiting and landing on the near-Earth asteroid 433 Eros. Last August, our Dawn spacecraft departed the asteroid Vesta and is now on its way to a 2015 rendezvous with Ceres, the solar system's largest asteroid. Launching in 2016, NASA's OSIRIS-REx mission will return a sample of up to 2.2 pounds from an asteroid to Earth in 2023. Of course, NASA is working to accomplish an astronaut visit to an asteroid by 2025. This mission and the vital precursor activities that will be necessary to ensure its success should result in additional insight into the nature and composition of NEOs and will increase our capability to approach and interact with asteroids. NASA has a long history of observing comets and asteroids but as their importance as potentially hazardous objects has become apparent, NASA has significantly increased its program of detection, reconnaissance and characterization. We have gained a nearly complete understanding of the population of NEOs over 1 kilometer in size, and we are making marked progress in protecting our planet from smaller but still dangerous objects. While we emphasize that the risks form impacts are remote, we remain absolutely committed to fulfilling our responsibility to find and track near-Earth objects. We will continue to scan the skies and update the Congress and the world on what we find. Again, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to responding to any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of General Bolden follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.021 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.023 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.025 Chairman Smith. Thank you, Administrator Bolden. I recognize myself for questions, and let me address the first one to Dr. Holdren and then perhaps, Administrator Bolden, to you as well. There seems to be general agreement based upon your testimonies that we are able to detect 90 to 95 percent of the near-Earth objects that are larger than 1 kilometer somewhere around 60 percent of the objects that are over 300 meters, so my question is this. I haven't heard yet nor have I seen yet what percentage of the near-Earth objects, the incoming asteroids that are 100 meters, what percentage of those objects are we able to detect, 100 meters being, I think, Dr. Holdren, you described in your written testimony as the size of a city destroyer. So what percentage of the 100-meter near-Earth objects can we detect, and do you have a figure for that? Dr. Holdren. I believe at this point that number would be a little under 10 percent. The number for 140 meters and above is 10 percent. The 100 would be a little under 10 percent. Chairman Smith. Administrator Bolden, do you agree with that? General Bolden. Yes, sir, that was on that second chart I showed where it looks like the less than 10 percent for---- Chairman Smith. Okay. How many objects are we talking about that we are not able to detect that might be the city destroyers? General Bolden. Numbers of objects? Chairman Smith. Yes. General Bolden. Mr. Chairman, I don't know that answer, and that is one thing I cannot take for the record because---- Chairman Smith. What was the 10 percent? Dr. Holdren. I can answer that question, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Smith. Okay, Dr. Holdren. Dr. Holdren. The estimates of how many objects exist, near- Earth objects in the range of 140 meters or above are between 13,000 and 20,000 objects. So that is the number of which we have detected 10 percent. That is the much more challenging goal, which the Congress put before us to identify 90 percent of those by 2020. Chairman Smith. Roughly 2,000 objects that are city destroyers, we are not detecting. Is that roughly right? Dr. Holdren. No, more, because the number we are detecting is 10 percent of 13,000 to 20,000 so---- Chairman Smith. I was going in---- Dr. Holdren. So you were going the other way. Unfortunately, the number undetected---- Chairman Smith. I was going 1,300 to 2,000, and I was going to the larger figure. That is why I said 2,000. General Bolden. So the number of undetected potential city killers is very large. It is in the range of 10,000 or more. Chairman Smith. Ten thousand or more. Okay. Not reassuring, but what is reassuring, we hope, is the unlikelihood that one of those city destroyers would actually hit a city. As you pointed out, two to three percent of the earth's area is urban area. Administrator, what programs, what improvements, what developments can we expect in the next, say, 2 years or 5 years to be able to better detect these thousands of near-Earth objects that might be life threatening? General Bolden. Mr. Chairman, we continue our work, our collaboration with our international partners. That is very important. As Dr. Holdren mentioned earlier, he didn't specify but it was a Spanish astronomer, amateur astronomer actually, or I think---- Chairman Smith. Do you expect improvements in Earth-based-- I mean telescopes, for example, that will enable us to better detect these? General Bolden. What we are really looking at is not improvements but increase in the numbers of space-borne assets. We really need to have space-borne assets that are able to look. We are cooperating right now with a Space Act Agreement with a private company called B612 that will be engaged in the identification and characterization of asteroids, and my hope is that there will be more. Chairman Smith. Okay. And what percentage of these thousands would we be able to detect in the next few years that we are not detecting now? Any idea? General Bolden. If you talk about the 140-meter class, our estimate right now is at the present budget levels--that is present budget levels, not the going-down budget levels--it will be 2030 before we are able to reach the 90 percent level as prescribed by Congress to detect and characterize those 90 percent of the 140-meter class. Chairman Smith. Okay. Thank you for the answer, though, again, that is not particularly reassuring. Maybe we can help you out with the budget. Don't know. General Shelton, last question for you. Was the Department of Defense aware of the meteor that exploded over Russia? General Shelton. Mr. Chairman, not until we were tipped off by NASA. Chairman Smith. And that was after the fact, or how far before the fact? General Shelton. No, it was--I want to say it was two or three days preceding---- Chairman Smith. Two or three days before it exploded over Russia? Okay. General Shelton. I am sorry. You said the explosion. I was talking about DA14. Chairman Smith. No, I am talking about the meteor that exploded over Russia. General Shelton. We had no insight in that at all. Chairman Smith. Even with satellites, even with everything else? General Shelton. We were aware of the event when it occurred. Chairman Smith. And not before? General Shelton. Not before. Chairman Smith. I just have to ask you, how then are we going to be aware of, say, incoming missiles if we couldn't detect the meteor exploding over Russia? General Shelton. Now, we did detect it. We were aware of the event. Chairman Smith. But at the time of the event, not before? General Shelton. Yes, sir, and we would have to take that into a different forum to talk in more detail. Chairman Smith. Okay. Thank you, and that concludes my questions. The Ranking Member, Ms. Johnson, is recognized for hers. Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much. Dr. Holdren, in October 2010, the Congressional response to the direction in the 2008 NASA Authorization Act described roles and responsibilities for NASA, FEMA, DOD and State but is silent who has the overall responsibility, and I was wondering who in this Administration is the--who has the single responsibility to oversee the other activities of other agencies? Dr. Holdren. Well, NASA is responsible, has the overarching responsibility for detection and notification. NASA notifies FEMA, they notify the Department of Defense. On the question of mitigation, who would have the responsibility if an asteroid were discovered to be on a collision course, that would depend on the size of the asteroid and the amount of notice we had. For some deflection missions, you would want NASA to be in charge. For other kinds of deflection missions, you would want DOD to be in charge. So it does not make sense from the standpoint of the mitigation mission to specify in advance which agency would do it, but the notification--identification and notification responsibilities are unambiguous. Ms. Johnson. So when there is mitigation, do all of you come together or who takes the lead? What determines who takes the lead? Dr. Holdren. In that event, we would certainly all come together, and we are in fact exercising those kinds of communications. There is actually an exercise coming up in the middle of next month when we will exercise those interactions, communications and the exercise of responsibilities. There is a workshop actually coming up at the beginning of next month in which those interagency interactions will be further discussed and delineated. Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. The gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher, is recognized for his questions. Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We are talking about space debris and near-Earth objects that are--it seems to me that these two issues are not just American issues, and we are talking about the cost all this, what are we talking about in terms of over a 20-year period, the costs of actually coming up with a deflection and the cost of actually making the determination of what is heading in our direction? Dr. Holdren, or do any of you have estimates of cost? General Bolden. Mr. Rohrabacher, I can give you an estimate right now. We do it incrementally so we believe we have to detect and characterize first and then we have to concern ourselves, as Dr, Holdren says, with who is going to do the mitigating action or the deflection action. We have two concepts. One is about three-quarters of a billion dollars for an infrared-based sensor that is placed in space, something that orbits Venus or at least is in geosynchronous orbit. B612, that I mentioned, their estimate for their effort is about a half a billion dollars, about $500 million dollars. So we are roughly in that range. Mr. Rohrabacher. Is that just for that one sensor that we are talking about? General Bolden. That is just for--to try to put something in space that will help us to identify and characterize. I think all three of us agree, ground-based systems are great, Arecibo and others, but if you really want to find and detect asteroids, near-Earth objects early enough that we can do something, then you want that vehicle---- Mr. Rohrabacher. And the cost is? General Bolden. I gave you an example of two. I will take it for the record to get back to you. I think what you are asking for is a lifecycle cost for a program to mitigate. Mr. Rohrabacher. Right. General Bolden. I don't think any of us have--we have not developed that. Mr. Rohrabacher. Well, it is in the billions of dollars, correct? General Bolden. Oh, yes, sir. Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay. General Bolden. You know, if one detection device is almost a billion---- Mr. Rohrabacher. Now, let me suggest that perhaps the billion dollars, and that would provide protection for not just the United States but for the world. General Bolden. Sir, anything we are talking about--this is not--as you pointed out, this is not an American issue. Anything that we do protects the planet. Anything that our international partners do protects the planet, and that is why you hear me talk all the time about the critical importance of international collaboration. Mr. Rohrabacher. That is what I want to ask you about on this. What steps have we taken to bring countries together that could contribute those billions of dollars as well as our own? General Bolden. Well, the U.N. Organization for Peaceful Cooperation of Space, U.N. COPUOS, has a very active ongoing activity and trying to help bring nations together and looking at detecting and tracking NEOs. We are a participant in that. Mr. Rohrabacher. There is not just one organization that is aimed specifically or--when was the last meeting of groups of people who represent countries that might want to get involved and contribute and have an overall part? Dr. Holdren. Congressman Rohrabacher, I can take that one. There was a meeting in Vienna in mid-February of this year just a month ago under the auspices of the U.N. Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space. It was agreed there to stand up an international asteroid warning network and to stand up as well an international body that would deal with the mitigation question. There is already underway something called AIDA, the Asteroid Impact and Deflection Assessment, which is a joint effort of the European Space Agency and NASA, and I should add that the detection network that we already have is highly international in character. As Administrator Bolden mentioned, it was actually a Spanish observer who first discovered the asteroid that made the near miss on February 15. The Minor Planet Center, which is in substantial part funded by NASA and hosted by the Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, is actually under the overall auspices of the International Astronomical Union, so it is all very international. Mr. Rohrabacher. I would suggest that number one, the cost of deflection of course, we are talking about the cost of detection, in one situation, the cost of having a deflection system is even more. I would suggest that this is one area of leadership that the United States could really take a role in and it would be good for all and it would create an international spirit of what we want to create. I would suggest especially including Russia in on this, and they may be able to make some major contributions, save us some money and actually make it a more effective system. And with that said, I would like to include all countries except China. Thank you. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher. The gentlewoman from Maryland, Ms. Edwards, is recognized. Ms. Edwards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask Dr. Holdren, the National Science Foundation has indicated a next major new start as the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope, the LSST, which is intended to detect and catalog potentially hazardous objects, and what I would like to know is, one, what the technological contribution would be if the LSST were to make the overall detection and cataloging effort possible, and General Bolden, you talked about the prospect of land-based systems versus systems that we would put outside in our solar system, but the cost, to me, it seems would be rather significantly different. And then I would like to have some understanding of whether there might be some cost sharing that NASA might consider with improvements to the LSST to try to optimize it for NASA's use, and get a sense as well of whether the challenges that we are facing and not meeting the 2025 deadline that--guideline that we have highlighted from the Committee. Are those technological challenges principally? Are they funding challenges? Is it some combination of cooperation challenges? I would like to better understand that, especially in this fiscal environment. Dr. Holdren. Well, let me just make a start and then I will turn it over to Administrator Bolden. The Large Synoptic Survey Telescope would be an important addition to our capabilities but it is important to understand that all these capabilities work in tandem, that is, they share information. Some of the telescopes are better at detection. Others are better at characterizing the orbit or determining the reflectivity and the likely composition of the object, and so one always has to think of this as a network. We have telescopes in Arizona, we have telescopes in Italy, we have telescopes in the Czech Republic, and they are all linked together and they are all part of a network that provides the overall capability we have to detect these objects. The LSST alone when it comes fully to fruition would still not be able to enable us to identify and characterize 90-plus percent of the objects in less than about a dozen years. But in combination, the LSST and an orbiting infrared telescope of the kind Administrator Bolden was talking about could lower that time to something in the range of 6 to 8 years. General Bolden. Congresswoman, the only thing I will add, you know, we flew an infrared imaging satellite called WISE, and then we repurposed it while on orbit to look for asteroids, and we discovered hundreds in the deep field of the solar system, the universe, actually. It is that type of instrument that I talk about. That is what B612 wants to do. We are looking at ways to cost-share. The nucleus organization that Congressman Rohrabacher mentioned involving Russia, the 5- member organizations of what we call the International Space Station team, and that is 15-plus European nations, Russia, Japan, Canada and the United States, although our primary responsibility is operating the International Space Station, when the heads of agency get together, we talk about everything, and one of the big things we talk about is the threat of near-Earth asteroids. At risk of getting in trouble because Congressman Rohrabacher and I have a healthy agreement to disagree, and I will say this, it will be the decision of this Congress as to whether or not we ever cooperate or participate with China. It is the elephant in the room. I don't talk about it because my public affairs and communications people tell me not to talk about it, but I don't deal with China by direction of this Congress. We are the only agency of the Federal Government that does not have bilateral communications with China. This is an issue for the world. This is not an issue for the United States, so although Congressman Rohrabacher and I---- Ms. Edwards. Well, I will let Congressman Rohrabacher take his time talking about China, and I am sure we could have a whole hearing on it. Before we go, though, I wanted General Bolden to--you know, the whole identified mission that the President has set out to go to an asteroid, it seems rather lackluster, and so I have always had questions about whether ought to be a goal or we ought to think about, you know, sort of the tradeoff, Mars, instead. Thank you. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Edwards. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Hall, chairman emeritus, is recognized for his questions. Mr. Hall. Mr. Chairman, of course I thank you for holding this very important hearing, and I thank the witnesses for their very valuable testimony. I had the privilege of serving on this Committee since 1981, and this topic has been the subject of periodic review and legislative direction, as the witnesses noted, in the 1990s during consideration of a NASA authorization bill. This matter came up, and it was really a discussion about asteroids. We had really a hearing on asteroids, as Mr. Rohrabacher remembers, and it was reported at that time that one had just passed the Earth that no one knew anything about but it missed us by 15 minutes. I hated to ask, was that just as good as it missing us by 1 minute or 30 seconds or what, but just the enormity of the damage that they could do to us. I offered an amendment at that time to set a goal of finding and cataloging within 10 years this population of comets and asteroids in an effort to be coordinated with the Department of Defense and space agencies of other countries. Other countries were invited to that hearing, but also told that we ought to have a world group because as Charlie said, it is a world problem. They were interested in attending but they weren't interested in contributing anything to it, so none of them showed up for the hearing. But as our witnesses stated, from 1998 until 2011, more than 90 percent of near-Earth objects with a diameter of 1 kilometer or greater have been located. So today we know more about these but we also have more work to do, especially those that are smaller that could still have a devastating impact if they hit the Earth. So Dr. Shelton, let me ask you this. What capabilities do we need that we don't currently possess to detect and track asteroids that might pose a threat to the Earth? General Shelton. Sir, if you are talking about Department of Defense capabilities---- Mr. Hall. What do we have to do? What should we do? General Shelton. Well, if you are talking about Department of Defense capabilities, we are focused on things in Earth orbit. Our sensors, and we have got a variety of them, are not focused on beyond the Earth. Mr. Hall. Well, once an object has been identified, what are our means of tracking it and how much time would we have to prepare if there were a threat to Earth? Dr. Holdren. Maybe I can take that, Congressman Hall. First of all, how much notice we have depends on the size of the object. The bigger it is, the further away we can see it and the more time we have. So there are some objects that we know are coming years in advance. There are other objects that are still big enough to cause damage that we only know about weeks in advance or days in advance. Obviously, we need to improve the capability to give us a large amount of notice, enough notice to mount a deflection mission if we see one on a collision course. Some of the capabilities we have been talking about, the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope, the orbiting telescope that the B612 Foundation is working with NASA to develop, all those capabilities will increase the warning time with respect to asteroids big enough to do serious damage. And again, the deflection options that would then be open to us would depend on the size of the object and the amount of notice we had. They would include---- Mr. Hall. Well, excuse me. The one that hit Russia, there is no question about that, and that is about all we know about it, why didn't we know that was coming or on its way? Dr. Holdren. It came out of the sun, Congressman Hall. It came from a direction where our telescopes could not look. We cannot look into the sun. Mr. Hall. Well, if we can't make that determination as to where it is going to come from, we ought to be able to do something no matter where it comes from if it is going to hit the Earth. Dr. Holdren. That is one of the reasons that an orbiting telescope---- Mr. Hall. That is why we are having this hearing today to ask you three men who know a heck of a lot more than we know about it to tell us. Dr. Holdren. Well, I would say, Congressman Hall, that the most important single thing we could do to improve our capacity to see any asteroid of potentially damaging size coming would be an orbiting infrared telescope of the sort that the B612 Foundation is working on. Mr. Hall. I thank you. I asked the question, if we saw one come toward Omaha, what could they do about it, and they said they could use a laser, and I went on and asked a second question. I said, well, could the laser hit it right in the middle because I didn't want to cause any more trouble than I had with Mr. Rohrabacher. I wasn't going to suggest that half of it hit Los Angeles and the other half hit New York. I suggested that half of it might go to the Pacific Ocean and the other half go to the Atlantic Ocean. They really didn't have an answer for that, and I doubt if you have. Dr. Holdren. Well, first of all, it would not be practical to have a laser powerful enough to split it in half. What you can do in principle if you have a very powerful laser is to cause jets of material heated by the laser to fly off of the asteroid and that is essentially the equivalent of a jet engine pushing the asteroid off course. There are other approaches to deflecting an asteroid. Those include hitting it with a very heavy impacter. They include approaching it, as we have already approached with robotic probes a number of asteroids and pushing it or towing it. Mr. Hall. I thank you, and I will write you a letter for some more, and thank you. I yield back my time. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Hall. Those were interesting answers, Dr. Holdren. I appreciate that. The gentlewoman from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for your interesting testimony. It has been well established in this testimony that the probability of an occurrence of a sizable NEO colliding with the Earth is quite small. I believe, General Bolden, you said extremely remote in your testimony. But it is also clear that the consequences could be enormous. For example, a strike, depending on the size of an asteroid, could bring a cloud of dust rivaling the most powerful volcanic explosion, or depending on where it hits could cause an enormous tsunami that would flood and destroy coastal regions. And I know you are all striving as we are to find the appropriate balance for investment without being unnecessarily alarmist. In the district--back to where it hits. In the district I represent in Oregon, there is a significant threat of a tsunami, especially from earthquakes. That is very real. Response preparedness is already a priority issue for my constituents. In fact, when I was in the legislature, we passed a bill that required the State to plan for the impacts of a 9.0-magnitude earthquake and a resulting tsunami, which scientists had determined would occur, will occur at some point in the future, so it is not planning for if, it is planning for when. And the State just released its resilience plan, which was partially funded through a FEMA grant, in February. The plan acknowledges the importance of preparing communities and infrastructure for a catastrophic event but it also places significant focus on the ability to respond once the event has occurred. And of course, this type of challenge has implications in the context of today's conversation. How much do we plan for detection, how much do we plan for response? Of course, we should be investing in the science that will help us detect and prevent the impacts of NEOs but we also need to consider how we will respond if it not possible to alter the orbits and stop these NEOs from colliding. Dr. Holdren, your 2010 report indicates that depending on the projected damage and location, FEMA could help provide Federal assistance and coordinate local emergency services personnel into integrated disaster response task forces. So could you talk a little bit more, please about how FEMA is approaching this role? How will they take into account different demographic and geographic characteristics in any given area? Thank you. Dr. Holdren. Wow, that is a really challenging question. You know, as we know, FEMA has a wide range of capabilities for responding to a wide variety of different kinds of emergencies and disasters. We are in the process, as I mentioned, of conducting exercises of various kinds in which FEMA is a participant, and thinking about and trying to work out the details of response strategies, depending on the nature of the impact, but as your question points out, those impacts could be very different. If a large asteroid strikes the ocean, as you point out, the impacts would largely come through the tsunami phenomenon, which is of course a phenomenon with which FEMA must also reckon since tsunamis can be caused in other ways. If a strike occurred over an urban region with sufficient force, the damage would resemble in some ways the damage from a massive earthquake, which is another event with which FEMA is familiar and prepared to respond. But these are going to be big challenges. I would not minimize the difficulty of responding adequately if a substantial asteroid strike should occur in the size range that we need to be particularly worried about. Ms. Bonamici. And so what efforts are being made to engage the existing emergency response infrastructure? Dr. Holdren. Well, as I say, we are actually exercising those with tabletop exercises and with larger-scale exercises in which the various agencies go through a simulated event of this kind, and those kinds of exercises are really the best way we have when combined with analytical tools to figure out how to bring our capabilities effectively to bear. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much. And either General Bolden or General Shelton, do you have any comments about finding that balance between preparing for detection and preparing for how we respond? General Bolden. Congresswoman, I would just echo what you said. You hit the right word, and that is balance. You know, we could come out of this hearing and decide that we want to really pour money into NEO detection and characterization, and that would not be the right thing to do because there has to be a balance. My recommendation would be the President's budget from 2013, I think was pretty good. We have a plan that Dr. Holdren talked about but it depends on the passage of that budget. Going into 2014, we will come back again and try to give you what we see as a funding level to support a plan that Dr. Holdren addresses. So that is where we have to cooperate, Congress and the Administration, in striking that proper balance. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much. My time is expired. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici. The gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Brooks, is recognized. Mr. Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Reading from Dr. Holdren's testimony, it says ``Depending on its composition and velocity, an asteroid of 140 meters in diameter could have an impact energy in the range of 50 to 500 megatons of TNT equivalent and would be capable of causing destruction over a large region,'' emphasis there 50 to 500 megatons, and I have got other notes here that suggest that the Hiroshima atomic bomb was roughly 13 kilotons, so much, much, much, much smaller. If you could, could you please describe with greater detail what you mean by a ``large region''? Dr. Holdren. The size you are talking about, 140 meters, and you have got the numbers exactly right, could devastate the better part of a continent. Mr. Brooks. We are talking about a very large region. Dr. Holdren. The fortunate--the only fortunate thing is that the estimated frequency with which objects of that size strike the Earth is about one in 20,000 years, or a probability of one in 20,000 each year. Nonetheless, this falls directly in the category that we were talking about, low probability, very high consequence, therefore we need to take the risk seriously and we need to make the kinds of investments that would enable us to deflect an asteroid of that size were one to be discovered on a collision course. Mr. Brooks. And you also used the word ``destruction'' in the context of this continent-sized area. Would human life be able to withstand that kind of impact and the way in which you use the word ``destruction''? Dr. Holdren. Well, clearly, if an asteroid of that size struck on land, there would be very large loss of life. If it struck in the ocean, it would produce, in all likelihood, a very large tsunami, which would be associated with large loss of life. If you say would humans survive on the Earth, the likelihood is yes. But there are concerns about the amount of dust and smoke that could be lofted into the atmosphere by such an impact. Mr. Brooks. Do you have a judgment as to whether humans would survive on the continent impacted, if you limit it just to the impact continent? Dr. Holdren. No, I believe the answer is yes. Is aid a substantial part of a continent. A bigger one, bigger still than 140 meters, could be a continent destroyer, and a bigger one still could be a civilization destroyer. You know, the one that hit 65 million years ago near what is now the Yucatan Peninsula is thought to have led to the extinction of the dinosaurs and most else that lived on Earth at the time. Mr. Brooks. And if I read your written testimony correctly, that was roughly 10 kilometers estimated size? Dr. Holdren. Yes. Mr. Brooks. Moving on, looking at the notes that I have been given by the HASC Committee, it suggests that we have identified so far thousands of objects in space, near-Earth objects in space, that are 300 to 500 meters in diameter, roughly 1,100, 1,200 that are roughly 500 to 1,000 meters in diameter, and roughly 900 that are a kilometer or more in diameter. So what I would like to know is, how much advance warning would the Earth's population need if, say, one of these kilometer or larger size objects for us to be able to do something to prevent that object from hitting the Earth and causing the kind of massive devastating that you have described? Dr. Holdren. Today, we would probably need years to mount such a mission. Over time, as we develop our capabilities to deal with this kind of threat, the lead time could be smaller. Mr. Brooks. Let me focus in on that. How many years would we need? Let us say we found out today that there is an object of this size that is going to hit the Earth. How many years would we need today if we were to do whatever is necessary to try to put ourselves in a position to save the planet? Dr. Holdren. I think I will refer that question to General Bolden. General Bolden. Well, if we did it according to the President's budget presently, 2025 is the time that we think we will be able to send a human to an asteroid acting with some robotic means. That is on---- Mr. Brooks. Let me interject for a moment. Let us assume that we know one is going to hit the planet, in which case I assume that we are going to accelerate things as quickly as we can. What is the fastest we can get it done where we could protect ourselves upon discovery of a 1-kilometer or larger object going to hit the Earth? General Bolden. Congressman, I will take it for the record and get back to you, but now you are talking about an intense effort, which, I mean, that significantly shortens the time. Mr. Brooks. Well, we would be intense. General Bolden. We have the systems and the technology available now to do that. You are talking about just pouring unlimited funds into it, and conceivably you could do it in 4 or 5 years. I don't know. But let me get back to you. Don't quote me on a number yet. But, I will work with General Shelton and his captain and, seriously, we will get you an answer. Mr. Brooks. Well, thank you for being here and testifying before us. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the time that you have allotted, and whatever time that is, I would love to help you shortening it. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Brooks. The gentleman from California, Mr. Swalwell, is recognized for his questions. Mr. Swalwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking Member Johnson. General Bolden, I represent Livermore, California, which has two of the NNSA labs, Lawrence Livermore and Sandia, and I imagine that when you talk about systems and technology, and if we were to require a weapon to deflect something that was incoming, a near-Earth object that was incoming, that some of that technology will have to be or has been designed at one of those laboratories. General Bolden. So if that a question---- Mr. Swalwell. Yes. General Bolden. If that were the decision, but again, I would go back to what Dr. Holdren said earlier. I would not consider a weapon to deflect or to save Earth against this type of threat. I would consider the development of appropriate technologies that could enable us to--we are talking about earliest detection, you are talking about deflecting. I mean, it is a tiny amount if you catch it far enough out. Mr. Swalwell. Let us assume that it is late-stage detection. I imagine our choices get limited, right? General Bolden. Yes, sir. That is not my bailiwick anymore. I don't do bombs and rockets. Mr. Swalwell. Well, General Shelton, those two laboratories in my district, I imagine they would play a critical role if we had a late-stage detection of one of these near-Earth objects. General Shelton. Yes, sir, I would think so. I mean, there are only a limited number of ways to generate the amount of energy required and probably nuclear energy is what we are talking about here. Mr. Swalwell. Is there a way to guarantee that one of these near-Earth objects does not hit on a Friday? Because right now in my district, all of the Federal employees at those laboratories are furloughed on Fridays. And I know in Congresswoman Edwards' district, some of those NASA employees that are trying to detect these incoming objects, I think they are going to be furloughed on Fridays too. So---- General Bolden. No, sir. Mr. Swalwell. No way to---- General Bolden. We are not planning to furlough employees. I just wanted to clarify that. So they will be there on Friday. Mr. Swalwell. Okay. General Bolden. But in seriousness, I have to go back again to say several things. One, these are remote occurrences. Two, the plan that the President has put forward I think will adequately address our technical capability to be able to deflect an asteroid in due time. If we find that we are tracking literally thousands of asteroids today. If the civilization destroyer that Dr. Holdren talks about, I mean, if we can't discover that early enough, then there is something wrong with our systems. Mr. Swalwell. Sure. So in our district, it is a fact: there are furloughs at our nuclear laboratories, and you are not concerned at all that sequestration affects our readiness to protect---- General Bolden. Sir, that wasn't the question you asked. Mr. Swalwell. So my question is---- General Bolden. I am very concerned with the effects of sequestration but that wasn't the question, and so yes, I am very concerned about the effects of sequestration on all of our ability to do what it is you ask us to do. You are talking about impacting our ability to keep our facilities operating safely. You are talking about just the mental strain on our employees not knowing whether they are going to be able to come to work tomorrow. I try to assure them every time I can that I am not planning to furlough anybody, but they know better than I do that the Congress could take some action and all of a sudden the Administrator doesn't have a clue what he is talking about because now I have got to lay people off. My intention is not to do that. If your question is, is there a bad effect of sequestration, yes, sir. Mr. Swalwell. That is my question. General Bolden. Yes, sir. Mr. Swalwell. How about for General Shelton? General Shelton. I will tell you, sir, just about my every waking moment these days is based on this topic. I just pulled the trigger on $508 million of reductions in just my major command alone from now until the end of the fiscal year, a 20 percent cut in pay to my civilians. There are resources that are used for missile warning and missile defense that we won't be able to operate at full capability. There are things that we use for space surveillance that we won't be able to operate at full capability. Mr. Swalwell. And General, do you think that makes us more or less prepared to handle a near-Earth objects? General Shelton. That is not what we do. That is NASA's responsibility. We contribute serendipitously at times but we are focused on things in Earth orbit. Mr. Swalwell. So if you had to focus on something in Earth orbit, would it make you more or less prepared having to have these across-the-board cuts? General Shelton. We are clearly less capable under sequestration. Mr. Swalwell. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the balance of my time. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Swalwell. The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Posey, is recognized for his questions. Mr. Posey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank all three of you for your very detailed written testimony. You use a lot of facts that I frequently refer to that clearly indicate it is not a matter of if but when civilization will be threatened by an impact. Until the recent Russian impact, quite a few people thought those of us who were even aware of this or dared mention it were on the kooky side, and so one good thing about that is maybe a little bit of a wake-up call to reality for some people. Dr. Holdren, your testimony referred to the first-ever exercise, deflection exercise. I wonder if you could just share a little bit with us about how that went. Dr. Holdren. I am not--the first-ever deflection exercise was a kinetic impact on an asteroid of medium size, which while interesting from the standpoint of the deflection it generated did not reflect the magnitude of the capability you would need for a late-notice deflection of an asteroid of threatening size. It was an interesting demonstration. One of the things I would like to reinforce is that the President's proposal to land U.S. astronauts on an asteroid by 2025 will in fact exercise a number of the capabilities that would be necessary to have in our toolbox should an asteroid of threatening size be detected on a collision course. I would disagree with something Congresswoman Edwards said, that this is a lackadaisical program. I think it is a crucial program, and I think it is going to lead to major advances in capabilities which are not just interesting to demonstrate at a small scale but not enough to deal with a real threat. Mr. Posey. Thank you. And I took her comment to mean she thought the approach to it might have been lackadaisical, not that it wasn't necessary, you know, for whatever---- Ms. Edwards. For the record, I didn't say that word. Mr. Posey. Okay. Now, the Ranking Member asked about protocol, you know, who is in charge, and we got about three or four minutes of a chatter but we never got an answer about who is in charge, and so rather than asking for a response, I would just like to recommend that the next time that you all come before us you give us a protocol and say this is who is in charge here, here is in charge here and here is in charge here, and it is just a very clear matter of protocol who is in charge in various instances, you know, as being preordained and preestablished.. I know you are going to corroborate and, you know, get this stuff done if we have an impact, but a good segment of the population thinks it is just a matter of calling Bruce Willis in, you know, and notwithstanding we don't have a shuttle anymore, you know, it is impossible. But things that beg for an answer, you know, scary of course, that we only know about 10 percent of the huge threats and we virtually have no idea of the small threats like the one that went undetected, the recent impact in Russia. You know, what would we do if you detected even a small one like the one in Russia headed for New York City in three weeks? What would we do? Bend over and what? General Bolden. No, Congressman, I have to go back to what I said before. These are very rare events. From the information that we have on asteroids that we have discovered of all sizes, we don't know of one that will threaten the population of the United States in three weeks, and we are trying very diligently as I said before with the President's budget to put ourselves in a position where we advance the technologies so that three weeks will not be something that causes us to panic because we will be able to respond. We are where we are today because you all told us to do something, and between the Administration and the Congress, the bottom line is always the funding did not come, and I don't care whose fault it is or if it is anybody's fault. We all know what we are facing today and we are all sitting here today as the Congress and the Administration try to figure out sequestration, something that never should have happened. Nobody planned it to happen but we are facing it today. And so the answer to you is, if it is coming in three weeks, pray, if we find that out right now. And that is not bad policy. Mr. Posey. That is reality. General Bolden. I am a practicing Episcopalian and I love what the Pope is doing right now. I will tell you, things have happened. You have got to pray. Mr. Posey. The upside, I guess, is that there is more public awareness now of the importance of space to the survival of our species and it is not at some unknown point in the far- distant future that we can imagine. General Bolden. And sir, if I may, you said something that is so important. It would be very easy for this Congress and for the Administration to say--because we get the question all the time, why are we worried about exploring beyond low-Earth orbit, can't we just put that off for 5 or 10 years. The reason that I can't do anything in the next three weeks is because for decades we have put it off for the next 5 or 10 years. We don't have contractors who go away from doing their job and then 5 years from now we call and say okay, we want to build a rocket. They will tell me, with whom; we don't do that anymore. All those guys went over and they are now selling pizza, and I am not being facetious when I say that. And I apologize. You cause me to lose my temper sometimes when I--this is really important. Mr. Posey. Yes, it is. General Bolden. And it has to be continuous. The President has a plan but that plan is incremental, and we can not like him, we can not agree with him, we can not do a lot of things. It is the best plan we have, and if we want to save the planet, because I think that is what we are talking about, then we have to get together, that side and that side, and decide how we are going to execute that plan as expeditiously as possible. That is all I can tell you. Mr. Posey. Thank you. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Posey. The gentleman from California, Mr. Takano. Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This use of the term ``civilization threatening'' or ``civilization destroying'' asteroids, remind me at what size would we say such an asteroid would be? Dr. Holdren. A 1-kilometer asteroid would be carrying energy in the range of tens of millions of megatons. That is as much or more energy as was in the combined arsenals of the United States and the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War. An asteroid of that size, a kilometer or bigger, could plausibly end civilization. Nobody has the detailed models, the ability to calculate and detail, to tell you exactly what the threshold is, but when you are talking about tens of millions of megatons of explosive energy, you are putting civilization at risk. Mr. Takano. And I am hearing that we are relatively optimistic that we can develop systems at the right price points to be able to detect asteroids of this size with a sufficient amount of lead time to be able to do something about it. Dr. Holdren. That is the size range where we have already detected something in the range of 93, 94 percent of the asteroids of that size range that could come close to the Earth, and in that size range, we can be reasonably assured, especially as we make these additional investments going forward, of being able to detect them with quite a lot of notice. Mr. Takano. Let us scale it down to medium- to large-size city-destroying asteroids. What size would those be? Dr. Holdren. A city-destroying asteroid could be in the range of 50-meter diameter carrying an energy in the range of 5 to 10 megatons. Mr. Takano. What sort of systems would we need to be able to detect that? You talked about more assets in our orbit, telescopes of that kind including those that could get around the issue of the sun. Dr. Holdren. We would want the infrared telescope in an orbit resembling that of Venus. It could be a Venus trailing orbit following the planet around, the planet Venus, which again is what the B612 Foundation is in fact working on. As Administrator Bolden mentioned, we actually had an experiment with an infrared telescope that was built for an orbiting telescope built for a different purpose. It is very good at finding asteroids. Mr. Takano. We spoke a lot about the cooperative nature of what would need to happen, nations coming together, but would there be also rivalrous kinds of impulses which might divide us? In fact if we were to detect objects of this size, would nations also be concerned about that impacting the ability to detect missiles, for example? Dr. Holdren. I think these are very different capabilities. As General Shelton mentioned, going into detail about our missile-detecting capabilities would require a different forum, but they are quite different in nature from the capabilities we would need to detect and track asteroids. Mr. Takano. Well, the chairman raised a question that I thought was rather interesting, did none of our current missile-detecting capabilities, did they fail to be able to detect the most recent asteroid, and you may not be able to answer that question. General Shelton. I can. We did detect it, and as I said, it was at the time. It wasn't predicted. It was detection at the time. Mr. Takano. So the missile detection capacities we have now I mean really are kind of--they are more in real time as opposed to time that we might be able to remediate the problem? General Shelton. Yes, sir, and focused on two things. The infrared signature coming out the back end of a missile, we see that, and as soon as it either breaks the ground, if there is weather overhead, as soon as it breaks the clouds, we will see that. We will be able to tell you what type of missile it is. We will be able to tell you where that missile is going. We will be able to tell you where it is going to impact. So very solid missile-warning capabilities. Those infrared sensors can be used for other things but they can't be used for predictive things out beyond Earth orbit. Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. Thank you so much. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Takano. The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Schweikert, is recognized. Mr. Schweikert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just because I want to get my head around and try to really understand some of the base-level approach here, and Doctor, I was going to ask you first, and forgive me if I am equating a statement to you that was in someone else's opening statement. A dangerous interaction, Earth and an object, was the statement one-out-of-a thousand-year event? Dr. Holdren. The one-in-a thousand-year event is the one of the magnitude that hit over the Tunguska, the asteroid impact over Siberia in 1908, and that was a 15-megaton class event. That is characteristic of one in a thousand years. The dimension of that asteroid was somewhere in the range of 50 meters. Mr. Schweikert. Now, if I remember my old modeling classes, when you start getting into something with that far out in detail, you know, it is like the person that says it is a 500- year flood except we had three of them in the last 10 years, because you have such--your degree of confidence, your noise in that just becomes--it blows off the chart. So we always like to say one in a thousand but it is one in a thousand with, you know, a 20 percent lack of confidence. Does that sort of math also work for this? Dr. Holdren. Well, I would say certainly there is a lack of confidence of that size or greater but the real catch is that a one-in-a-thousand-year event can occur at any time. The fact that on average one only expects these to happen once in a thousand years doesn't mean that one won't happen next year. Mr. Schweikert. Often when we talk to certain non- statistical people, you try to explain that you can have the three 500-year floods in 10 years and then go 1,500 years without something. Okay. In the discovery of objects out there, how much are you finding is coming from the amateur astronomy community? I mean, if I remember correctly, you were telling me that--was it the gentleman--was it an amateur in Spain that saw the last one? Dr. Holdren. I am not sure it was an amateur. General Bolden. I don't know that it was--we can find out whether it was an amateur astronomer. We just know it was an astronomer in Spain that made the discovery on 2012 DA14. Mr. Schweikert. Is there--how formal or informal is that network out there of university amateurs, governmental astronomers, you know, scouring the skies, seeing things, reporting them? How does that mechanism work? Dr. Holdren. It is actually quite organized, quite formal and quite fast. That community of folks stay in constant communication. Let me take this opportunity to recommend a book, because it is not mine, a book by NASA's head of the near-Earth Object Identification program, Dr. Donald Yeomans. It just came out this year, 2013. It is called Near-Earth Objects: Finding Them Before They Find Us. Nice title. And he talks at great length about these networks, about the roles of amateurs, about the roles of professionals, who discovered what. Mr. Schweikert. You are beating me into where I was actually trying to go. Is there a way to take that network and incentivize it? I have a great interest in sort of distributive information, distributive networks, so lots of smart people all over the world with this their hobbies, and is there a way-- should we be incentivizing that? Dr. Holdren. That is a great question, and we in OSTP are greatly in favor of crowdsourcing. We are greatly in favor of putting challenges out there, and in fact---- Mr. Schweikert. You and I are about to become really good friends. Dr. Holdren. And these challenges we already know. We have used them across a domain of interesting problems, and I think there is no doubt we are going to have a challenge around asteroid detection. Mr. Schweikert. And it is not answerable in 20-some seconds, but part of that is, okay, we see something. How far in advance with current technology do you have to see something to analyze, determine, you know, threat assessment and then react to it? Dr. Holdren. The analysis and threat assessment is pretty fast because once you see it, you can train on it various other instruments--the radio telescopes, optical telescopes, and use the combination of information available from them once they know where to look in the sky to characterize its trajectory and determine whether or not it is a threat. The long-time scale, the long pole in the tent, is deploying the capability to deflect one that you discover is on a collision course, and that is the issue where currently we would have to say the time scale is in the range of years, and I think Administrator Bolden suggested that he would get back to the Committee on that, but I think his estimate, his initial estimate, is certainly reasonable. Even throwing a lot of resources at it, you would be talking 4 or 5 years to mount a deflection mission. Mr. Schweikert. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your patience. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Schweikert. The gentlewoman from Connecticut, Ms. Esty, is recognized. Ms. Esty. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I too share some of the interest in this sort of crowdsourcing, and would just flag, since we have already had some hearings on big data, to perhaps follow up at a later time to think about what opportunities there are in other areas. We are also looking at the data side and how we might be able to collaborate on this worldwide problem, and I think that is very important. For General Bolden, if you could talk a little bit about what NASA's procedure is for actually notifying our Federal agencies? You get notice of a NEO. What do you need to know? What triggers a notification warning and how does that actually work? General Bolden. Congresswoman, there are several organizations we notify. We notify the State Department, first of all, because they notify our international partners that there is an incident, and this is not just for asteroids. This would be for a satellite that has fallen back to Earth or something, and we have had to exercise that several times over the last two years. The first person I would notify would be Dr. Holdren as the President's science advisor, and going back in response to Mr. Posey's question, there is no question in my mind who is in charge, and I go to Dr. Holdren because he pulls the team together, whether it is DOD or NASA and everyone else, but I understand the thrust of the question. So we would notify other Federal agencies, FEMA, the State Department, and then go from there. And it is scenario dependent. It depends on what the characterization of the asteroid or the NEO happens to be. Sometimes it is just a matter of saying hey, we now have something else that has been added to the inventory, it is not an Earth-threatening orbit, and we do that. Ms. Esty. Could you talk about whether there is an organized international warning network, or should there be? Is this something that is again scenario dependent or is there an actual formal network? General Bolden. Dr. Holdren mentioned the recent meeting in conjunction with U.N. COPUOS that actually the chair was an American, a NASA scientist, and from that meeting came the initial decision that we would organize, and I can get you more information on what they propose, because like everything else, it is a proposal for an international collaborative effort to do this. Dr. Holdren. If I could just add one thing to that. The Minor Planet Center, which I mentioned before, which is located at the Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, is a formal international entity to which everybody automatically feeds discoveries of new near-Earth objects. So there is already a formal network which functions to assemble all the information that is available from all these different telescopes around the world, and even the amateur astronomers know where to go with their findings. They go straight to the Minor Planet Center, and the Minor Planet Center then goes to the NASA operation at JPL, which is responsible for working out the trajectory in coordination with these other groups. But the thing that is new, the international asteroid warning network, which emerged from this February 15th meeting in Vienna, will ramp up this whole effort and will add, I think, additional layers of capability as countries come together to say given these current scattered assets, what more do we need and how do we get it. Ms. Esty. It seems to me that is very important for several reasons. Everybody is under budget constraints so that we should be more effectively deploying world resources in this range but also confidence building, which I worry about from a security point of view, that if other countries see this as threatening because we might use these technologies in some other way, it is going to be vitally important that we are sharing in a way that in fact respects the assets other countries have and we all get the benefit for worldwide resources. So if you have specific proposals as the outcome of the Vienna conference goes forward, I hope you will come back to us to help us bring those forward to leadership about new opportunities but in fact will be lifesaving, you know, planet- saving potentially but that will allow--will require greater collaboration. Thank you very much. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Esty. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Weber, is recognized. Mr. Weber. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Holdren, you said that the asteroid that hit Siberia was 15 megatons. What was the name of that event? Dr. Holdren. That was Tunguska. Mr. Weber. Tunguska? Dr. Holdren. T-u-n-g-u-s-k-a. Mr. Weber. Okay. And then you said, I think, you all agreed there was 13,000 objects---- Dr. Holdren. Thirteen to 20,000 140 meters and above, so the number would be somewhat larger for asteroids 100 meters and above. Mr. Weber. How close is the nearest one? Dr. Holdren. Well, it is not a question of how close it is now. The question is, how close will its orbit take it to the Earth in the near future. Right now, as Administrator Bolden has said, none of these asteroids hat we have found is on a collision course with the Earth. Mr. Weber. Okay. You also--well, I think it was you, General Bolden, that said the Russian meteor was hidden by the sun and it is the reason we didn't detect it because it came straight out of the sun? General Bolden. I wasn't, but that is correct. The folks in NASA when I asked the question of how did this happen, it came from out of the sun. Mr. Weber. But my question is, when something comes right out of the sun directly at us, at some point we are able to identify it, General Shelton, you said. How much time do we have? Is that 10 minutes, 2 hours? At what point does it become identifiable as it gets to the Earth's atmosphere? General Bolden. Well, one thing, Congressman, I do have to reemphasize, we talk about these three week scenarios, that is so unlikely, and even the occurrence in Russia, that was not a city-threatening--if you were in Russia, that was a significant event, but that is not of the size that is the city- threatening, the region-threatening, the other---- Mr. Weber. But can you give me a time frame on how long we would have when one actually is in the---- General Bolden. It is my belief that we can identify in sufficient advance those that are the big threats, but we need to do better. Mr. Weber. Okay. We had the Hubble telescope up for a long time. Now we have replaced that---- General Bolden. It is still up. Mr. Weber. It is still up, and you and I had the discussion in my office, we have a better telescope up. General Bolden. We are a little ways away. In 2018 we will launch the James Webb Space Telescope, but they are not in the asteroid NEO identifying--they are looking at totally different things. Mr. Weber. Given the scenario of low funding and time being of the essence, could we make that change to where we could add on to that telescope so we get it up in space? General Bolden. No, sir. Very simply, no, sir. Mr. Weber. Can't do that? General Bolden. No, sir. We would not want to do that, to be quite honest. We have a plan right now, Dr. Holdren and I both have mentioned collaboration with private industry, with private organizations like B612. I don't want anybody to think that B612 is going to save the planet but they are doing what we need to do in terms of providing a means to identify---- Mr. Weber. That was my question about that particular telescope. The ISS, if I remember correctly, orbits the Earth every 91 minutes? General Bolden. That is about right. Mr. Weber. How much of a role do they play in being able to identify and how much time do---- General Bolden. Right now we don't utilize it at all, but as I talked about when I was in with you, we are learning every single day that ISS, although we thought it was not a platform that you would want to do Earth science, it is turning out to be a great platform, and we are learning more and more about it. We have a solar experiment that is going up, and there may be the capability to put something there, but that is not going to be the answer. Mr. Weber. Six hours, six days, six weeks? General Bolden. I would not even like to fool anybody that ISS and anything we can put on it is going to answer this question. The types of things that Dr. Holdren mentioned and I mentioned earlier are the way we need to go. Mr. Weber. All right. Two final questions and I have got to go. Who monitors this screen for all of these objects? Does it doing your iPhone when there is a threat coming? I mean, somebody has to got to be watching some instrument 24/7 to say oops, we picked one up. Who does that? Dr. Holdren. That happens at the Minor Planet Center, where all the information from all of these sensing instruments around the world goes. Mr. Weber. And then final question. So you explode an asteroid, how do we know that we get total disintegration and we don't have, instead of one big object coming at us, 20 very lethal objects? Dr. Holdren. You don't know that. That is one of the reasons that blowing one up close to the Earth is not a great option. Deflecting it farther from the Earth so that it doesn't hit us at all is a much better option. Mr. Weber. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Chairman Smith. Tank you, Mr. Weber. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Veasey, is recognized. Mr. Veasey. Thank you. I forgot who it was earlier talked about an asteroid hitting an ocean and causing a tsunami. I guess depending on the size of the asteroid would be the correct answer to this question, but how far inland could a reasonably sized asteroid make water come in? Because that was really interesting to me. Dr. Holdren. There is a very interesting discussion of exactly that question in Dr. Yeomans' book, and the answer is, we really don't know because the dynamics of tsunamis caused by asteroid impacts are, number one, very complicated and not adequately investigated, and it depends on many factors including the slope of the ocean bottom close to the continent that is going to be most affected and it depends on a lot of other characteristics of the asteroid impact. So I think there is no simple answer to that question that we can give at this time. Mr. Veasey. What about asteroids hitting other, you know, planet systems, or what sort of research do you have on that? Dr. Holdren. Well, there are a lot of craters out there. There are craters on the moon from asteroid impacts that we can see very clearly. Mr. Veasey. Any recently that you--any recent craters on the moon? Dr. Holdren. I would have to get back to you on that. I am not sure what the most recent impact on the moon is, but I think none very recent, but again, in geologic time, ``recent'' can be quite a stretch of time. But there is also lots of evidence of asteroids bashing into each other. If you look at the larger asteroids that are out there, they themselves are pitted with major craters that come from them bumping into each other. Mr. Veasey. Thank you. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Veasey. The gentleman from Utah, Mr. Stewart, is recognized. Mr. Stewart. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time. I know you and your careers and I have a great deal of respect for you, so thank for that. General Bolden, good to see you, sir. We spent some time at your place talking the other day, and I know that you are a former Marine pilot. As you know, I am a former Air Force pilot. My question is actually for General Shelton. As a senior Air Force officer with great wisdom and insight, is it your understanding, sir, as it is mine that Air Force pilots are the best pilots in the world? General Shelton. I am going to have to say yes on that, sir. Mr. Stewart. Thank you, sir. I am surprised no one has asked that question yet. I am glad I was able to. General Shelton. Actually, sir---- General Bolden. That is fighter pilots of all services with the Air Force. I am an attack pilot. Mr. Stewart. You are a bigger man than I am because I have never landed on a carrier. Actually I have a couple of simple questions, then maybe a more detailed one. The first would be, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about detection avoidance, you know, and some of the uncertainties about that. I am curious about policy, public policy. If we were to determine that there was a threat and then even determined that it was actually potentially devastating, do we have a policy as to whether we would share that information with the public and how we would do that? And Dr. Holdren, I guess that is probably most appropriate for you. Dr. Holdren. My expectation would be that we would notify, but the first thing that would happen if information came in indicating that an asteroid had been detected to be on a collision course with the Earth and it was big enough to do serious damage, it would be exactly what happened after the Fukushima earthquake and tsunami affected Japan. Namely, there would be a gathering in the Situation Room within minutes in which we would have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we would have the Secretary of State, we would have the head of FEMA, we would have the Secretary of Homeland Security, we would have the head of NASA, we would have General Shelton, and there would be an intense discussion of the whole range of actions that the government would take in order to deal with the threat, whatever it was, and in that meeting, unquestionably there would be a discussion of who to notify, how fast, in what form. Mr. Stewart. And I understand that. I am curious, and maybe--and I am not advocating one way or the other. I am just curious, have you determined the protocol for advising the public? Is that part of that matrix? Dr. Holdren. I don't know whether FEMA, which would have that responsibility, has developed a formal protocol. We could get back to you on that. Mr. Stewart. Okay. I wish you would. I would be curious to know that. And the second thing, and we have all talked about it, maybe I am just not that bright, I am not sure I get it, but, you know, the saying, we don't know what we don't know, and you said that we have discovered 94 percent of the asteroids over 1 kilometer, for example, but if we don't know what is out there, how do we know that we have discovered 94 percent of them? Dr. Holdren. That is actually a very good question, and it turns out that there are subtle statistical techniques that rely on sampling of subpopulations and what fraction of them you have see before in order to determine what fraction of the overall population you have actually seen. That is actually described again in wonderfully clear detail in Dr. Yeomans' book. It was the best explanation of that that I have seen. Mr. Stewart. So you are interpolating there? You are drawing conclusions but you are fairly comfortable---- Dr. Holdren. You are drawing conclusions based on sampling. Mr. Stewart. Right, but you are fairly comfortable with those figures? Dr. Holdren. Yes. Mr. Stewart. Okay. And then the last question in the minute or so I have left, you know, we talk about detection being, you know, the first line of defense, and our efforts, and you mentioned some of the others as well, but I mean, is the United States the lead on this? Clearly, we are, but are other nations contributing to this detection effort in a meaningful way or is it almost entirely our efforts that are meaningful here? Dr. Holdren. No, absolutely other nations are contributing in a meaningful way. There are important telescopes and data centers in Italy. That is a German-Italian collaboration. There is another one in Czechoslovakia. There are some--the LSST will be in Chile. There are some in Australia. And again, this domain is actually remarkable for the degree of international cooperation and interconnection compared to many others where we are not nearly as far along. Mr. Stewart. As it should be, of course, because we all got a dog in this fight. So those other entities, are they funded by the EU and other--they are not with American funding at all? Those are entirely independently funded efforts? Dr. Holdren. No, they are not entirely independently funded. For example, the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope is being very substantially funded by NSF even though it is going to be in Chile, but of course, it will be an NSF facility in a sense. The Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto Rico is funded by NSF. Mr. Stewart. So even though these are located, geographically located around the world, they are primarily U.S. efforts? Dr. Holdren. I would have to get back to you on the international distribution of the funding. Certainly there is substantial funding from the European Space Agency. There is substantial funding from Germany, from Italy, from Czechoslovakia, from France, but I could not give you a percentage. Mr. Stewart. Again, if you would, I would appreciate that. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Stewart. The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Grayson, is recognized. Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, we could spend each year a million dollars on space threats, we could spend a billion dollars or we could spend a trillion dollars. I would like to hear from each one of you what we should spend. That is what we have to decide here. And specifically, I would like to hear either a number or formula, I think the Science Committee can deal with formulas, or some sort of list of the things that you think must be done without regard to what they cost. Let us start with you, Dr. Holdren. Dr. Holdren. The National Academy of Sciences just a couple of years ago came out with a report in which they actually addressed this question, and they looked at what you could do for $500 million a year, what you could do for $100 million a year, what you could do for 50. I would say on the basis of that, if we are just looking primarily at detection and characterization, that I think we would want to be spending upwards of $100 million a year. If we are looking, as I think we must as well, at mitigation, then you would have to include the costs of carrying out the President's goal of visiting an asteroid by 2025. Various estimates have been put forward of the cost of doing that, but it almost certainly would be in the range of $2 billion or more spread over the period between now and 2025. Mr. Grayson. Thank you. General Shelton? General Shelton. Yes, sir. In my case, we are talking about geosynchronous orbit into the surface of the planet, so that, just that part of space that we are responsible for, probably 200 or 300 million a year-ish is what we are talking about, developing better sensors that are more sensitive to the space debris population that is growing, sensors that allow us to better catalog the activity that is there and characterize it as threats continue to grow in space both adversarial threats as well as environmental threats. We need to be able to characterize that much better than we have the capability to do today. So I would say that 200 to 300 million range is what we are talking about. Mr. Grayson. Good. Administrator Bolden? General Bolden. Sir, the only thing I will add, because Dr. Holdren pretty much answered it, I want to reemphasize, because we have identified 95 percent of those objects that are a kilometer and above and we have seen none that are on a collision trajectory with Earth, this is not an issue that we should worry about in the near term. However, as I said, the President has laid out a plan, and I would say that is a very good start. We have a lot of work to do but the funding that is presently laid out in the President's budget is sufficient to get us there incrementally. We just have to move that plan forward. So you can't stop. That is my point. Mr. Grayson. All right. Now, tell us what kind of costs we would be facing if we spent nothing. It can be a worst-case scenario or a not-so-bad-case scenario, but the likely costs we would face if we did nothing. Let us start with you, Dr. Holdren. Dr. Holdren. This is a very tough question because there are different ways to present these things. If you take the expected value of the damage in terms of loss of human life integrated over a very long period of time, it comes out that the estimated loss of life from asteroid impact is only about 100 per year. That compares with a million per year for malaria, it compares with five million per year for tobacco. So it doesn't look like a very big threat. But of course, that is not really a meaningful way to present a risk of this character where you are talking about a low probability of a very big disaster, and in those sorts of situations, we tend to invest in insurance to reduce the likelihood of a disaster we would regard as intolerable. If you say how big is the disaster, if you are talking about a 10-kilometer asteroid of the sort that exterminated the dinosaurs, what is the value of all of civilization? It is a very big number but is it meaningful as a number which you then divide by the 65-million-year return time? I think we just can't get at it that way. Mr. Grayson. General Shelton, the costs of a worst-case scenario? General Shelton. Well, again, from a DOD perspective, we would not be able to characterize the traffic on orbit, we would not be able to avoid collisions on orbit, we would not be able to detect adversary activity on orbit, and our dependence on space, by the way, not only for our way of life but also for military operations is very high so we would sacrifice that. Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Grayson, and let me thank our witnesses today for their testimony. This has been a particularly interesting hearing. No doubt there will be some follow-up questions that will be addressed to you all, but thank you for being here and thank you for your expertise as well. We stand adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] Appendix I ---------- Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Responses by The Honorable John P. Holdren [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.029 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.030 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.032 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.033 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.034 Responses by Gen. William L. Shelton [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.035 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.037 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.038 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.042 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.043 Responses by The Honorable Charles F. Bolden, Jr. [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.058 Appendix II ---------- Additional Material for the Record Submitted statement by Representative Steve Stockman, Committee on Science, Space and Technology Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for focusing Congress' attention on taking effective action on the threats, and solutions to, potentially dangerous meteors and asteroids. The Chelyabinsk meteor, the flyby of asteroid 2012 DA14, and the 1908 Siberian Tunguska event all offer the dramatic lesson that tracking and mitigating such objects must become a national priority. We know a large meteor or asteroid could destroy a city and kill millions of people. Unlike in 1908, we now have the ability--and therefore the responsibility--to take effective actions for identifying and avoiding a potentially catastrophic collision. Under current funding levels, NASA will not be able to meet the Congressional requirement to identify 90% of all objects 140 meters in diameter or larger by 2020. Altering the trajectory of an object in the Earth's path could not be accomplished within decades at current funding levels. Therefore these objectives must be met with additional and sufficient funds rather than reducing or cancelling funding for existing NASA programs. `Robbing Peter to pay Paul' would only result in half-hearted efforts which would fail to address the threat from asteroids while at the same time crippling our existing space program. A poorly-funded program will yield poor results. I am a tireless budget-slasher; however, science, space; and yes, planetary defense are among the few government programs essential to our future. Advances in technology for planetary defense may provide spinoffs for propulsion to take Americans to Mars and beyond; for cleaning up space debris which threatens satellites and the International Space Station; as well as for more everyday-life applications. This is of course a worldwide threat, and other nations should participate in developing solutions. However as with all smart space partnerships, it is in our distinct national interest that the United States lead the effort. This will assure that the majority of the technology developed will directly benefit the U.S. economy, and will give the U.S. the ability to block the transfer of our most advanced technology to our potential adversaries. The same technology to track and alter the course of asteroids could have military applications. The threat from asteroids and meteors is real. America must take the lead to develop practical and effective solutions, reap the technological benefits--lest a decade or two from now we regret our inaction. Letter submitted by Dr. Dante Lauretta, Department of Planetary Sciences, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0552.060 Additional responses submitted by The Honorable Charles F. Bolden, Jr. Material requested for the record by Rep. Rohrabacher during the March 19, 2013, NEO hearing. To prepare for the unlikely event where the Earth would be threatened by a collision with a near-Earth object (NEO), we believe an enhanced program would include a steady effort of ground-based observation and monitoring of the detected hazards as they are found (lifecycle cost estimate of up to $600M over 20 years). Further enhancements could include space-based surveys to provide more timely detection of the hazardous population, and technology demonstration missions to test deflection techniques. The costs of these further enhancements are difficult to precisely estimate, but might be on the order of $2.5 - $3B. [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.061 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.062 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.063 THREATS FROM SPACE: A REVIEW OF PRIVATE SECTOR EFFORTS TO TRACK AND MITIGATE ASTEROIDS AND METEORS, PART II ---------- WEDNESDAY, APRIL 10, 2013 House of Representatives, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:00 p.m., in Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Lamar Smith [Chairman of the Committee] presiding. [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.002 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.003 Chairman Smith. The Committee on Science, Space, and Technology will come to order. Welcome to today's hearing, which is titled ``Threats from Space, Part II: A Review of Private Sector Efforts to Track and Mitigate Asteroids and Meteors.'' I will recognize myself for an opening statement and then the Ranking Member. A few weeks ago, our Committee held a hearing to review U.S. Government efforts to track incoming asteroids and meteors. Today, we will follow up by focusing on nongovernmental efforts. The substantial public interest in this issue indicates the broad fascination with the subject. As witnesses said in our previous hearing, the events of February 15, when an asteroid passed close by the Earth and a meteor struck Russia, were unique in their occurring on the same day. And I am going to hold up a piece of the asteroid that exploded above Russia on February 15. Maybe I ought to take it out of the bag here. Let me--and I am assuming this is not toxic. Is that right? But there it is, a nice size bit of meteorite there, a gift from the Russians. It was given to us by the Principal Investigator of NASA's Asteroid Sample Return Mission, which is slated to launch in 2016. In our first hearing, testimony about the government's efforts was not reassuring. Most troubling to me was the fact that of the up to 20,000 asteroids that could be labeled as city destroyers, we have identified only 10 percent. And we are unlikely to have the means to detect 90 percent until 2030. Detecting asteroids should not be the primary mission of NASA. No doubt the private sector will play an important role as well. We must better recognize what the private sector can do to aid our efforts to protect the world. Today's hearing will help us understand the level of risk, as well as what capabilities we have and those we will need. The President's FY 2014 budget proposal brings necessary attention to this issue in general, but a consensus will have to be reached within Congress before progress can actually be made. This won't be an effort for one agency, one company, or one country. And in these fiscally challenging times, we can't afford duplication or the inefficient use of our resources. The more we discuss and understand the challenges we face, the easier it will be to facilitate possible solutions. Now, I will recognize the Ranking Member, the gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Johnson, for her comments. [The prepared statement of Mr. Smith follows:] Prepared Statement of Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology Good afternoon. A few weeks ago, our Committee held a hearing to review U.S. Government efforts to track incoming asteroids and meteors. Today, we will follow up by focusing on nongovernmental efforts. The substantial public interest in this issue indicates the broad fascination with this subject. As witnesses said in our previous hearing, the events of February 15, when an asteroid passed close by the Earth and a meteor struck Russia, were unique in their occurring on the same day. This is a piece of the asteroid that exploded above Russia on Feburary 15th. It was given to me by the Principal Investigator of NASA's asteroid sample return mission, which is slated to launch in 2016. In our first hearing, testimony about the government's efforts was not reassuring. Most troubling to me was the fact that of the up to 20,000 asteroids that could be labeled as ``city destroyers,'' we have identified only 10%. And we are unlikely to have the means to detect 90% until 2030. Detecting asteroids should not be the primary mission of NASA. No doubt, the private sector will play an important role as well. We must better recognize what the private sector can do to aid our efforts to protect the world. Today's hearing will help us understand the level of risk, as well as what capabilities we have and those we will need. The President's FY 14 budget proposal brings necessary attention to this issue in general, but a consensus will have to be reached within Congress before progress can be made. This won't be an effort of one agency, one company, or one country. And in these fiscally challenging times, we can't afford duplication or the inefficient use of our resources. The more we discuss and understand the challenges we face, the easier it will be to facilitate possible solutions. Ms. Johnson. Good afternoon. I want to join the Chairman in welcoming our witnesses to today's hearing. You each have deep experience and expertise directly related to the hearing topic, and I look forward to your testimony. As the Chairman has indicated, this hearing is the second that the Committee has held in the opening months of the 113th Congress on the topic of asteroids. Last month's meteor over Russia and the close passage of a near-Earth asteroid both stimulated public interest in the potential threat posed by asteroids and comets. And this second hearing is certainly a reflection of that interest. I will not attempt to repeat the sentiments I expressed at our first hearing on this topic and instead will confine myself to a few brief comments. First, it is clear that from last month's hearing there is still a lot of work to be done to track and characterize asteroids that could potentially impact the Earth and that even relatively small asteroids could do significant damage if they hit in a heavily populated area. So I hope that our witnesses today will help us better understand what will be needed to complete the existing survey, as well as perhaps extend it to a smaller size asteroid. Second, I want to be one to better understand both the strengths and limits of NASA relying on private organizations such as the B612 for detection of potential Earth-impacting asteroids. My problem is not with the efforts of such organizations to address what they see as an important problem. Instead, my concern is that we have reached a point where our government has to hope that nongovernmental organizations will somehow do what the government should be doing but it apparently is unwilling to pay for it. However, if the protection of the planet is not an appropriate role for the Federal Government, I am not sure what is. And finally, before I close, I will note that the President's just-released budget request proposes to invest in a number of asteroid-related initiatives. We will need to closely examine the President's proposals in the coming weeks to fully understand what is being proposed. So I am not going to comment on them in any depth today. Instead, I will simply say that I deeply hope that whatever new initiatives are being proposed will be accomplished accompanied by adequate funding of their own rather than being funded by cannibalizing other important NASA programs. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will not give us sustainable and effective NASA programs. And I hope we will all resist the temptation to do so as we try to address the challenges posed by near-Earth asteroids.Thank you and I yield back. [The prepared statement of Ms. Johnson follows:] Prepared Statement of Ranking Member Eddie Bernice Johnson Good afternoon. I want to join the Chairman in welcoming our witnesses to today's hearing. You each have deep experience and expertise directly related to the hearing topic, and I look forward to your testimony. As the Chairman has indicated, this hearing is the second that the Committee has held in the opening months of the 113th Congress on the topic of asteroids. Last month's meteor over Russia and the close passage of a near-Earth asteroid have both stimulated public interest in the potential threat posed by asteroids and comets, and this second hearing is certainly a reflection of that interest. I will not attempt to repeat the sentiments I expressed at our first hearing on this topic and instead wil confine myself to a few brief comments. First, it is clear from last month's hearing that there is still a lot of work to be done to track and characterize asteroids that could potentially impact the Earth. And that even relatively small asteroids could do significant damage if they hit a heavily populated area. So I hope that our witnesses today will help us better understand what will be needed to complete the existing survey as well as perhaps extend it to smaller-sized asteroids. Second, I want to better understand both the strengths and limits of NASA relying on private organizations such as B612 for detection of potential Earth-impacting asteroids. My problem is not with the efforts of such organizations to address what they see as an important problem. Instead, my concern is that we have reached a point where our government has to hope that nongovernmental organization will somehow do what the government should be doing but is apparently unwilling to pay for. However, if the protection of the planet is not an appropriate role for the Federal Government, I'm not sure what is. Finally, before I close, I will note that the President's just- released budget request proposes to invest in a number of asteroid- related initiatives. We will need to closely examine the President's proposals in the coming weeks to fully understand what is being proposed, so I'm not going to comment on them in any depth today. Instead, I will simply say that I deeply hope that whatever new initiatives are being proposed will be accompanied by adequate funding of their own rather than be funded by cannibalizing other important NASA programs. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will not give us sustainable and effective NASA programs, and I hope we will all resist the temptation to do so as we try to address the challenge posed by near- Earth asteroids. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. Other Members' statements will be made a part of the record. And I will introduce our witnesses now. Our first witness is Dr. Ed Lu. Dr. Lu is the CEO of the B612 Foundation, which aims to build, launch, and operate the Sentinel Space Telescope to help find and track threatening asteroids. He is a former NASA astronaut who flew three space missions and spent six months aboard the International Space Station. From 2007 to 2010, he led the Advanced Projects Group at Google. His teams developed imaging technology for Google Earth Maps, Google Street View, and energy information products, including Google Power Meter. He is also the co- inventor of the gravity tractor, a spacecraft able to controllably alter the orbit of an asteroid. And he has published scientific articles on high-energy astrophysics, solar physics, plasma physics, cosmology, and statistical physics. He holds a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering from Cornell and a Ph.D. in astrophysics from Stanford University. Our second witness is Dr. Donald Yeomans. Dr. Yeomans is a Senior Research Scientist, Supervisor for the Solar System Dynamics Group, and Manager of NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office at Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. His research focuses on the physical and dynamical modeling of comets and asteroids. He was a Radio Science Team Chief for the Near-Earth Asteroid Rendezvous Mission. He has received 15 NASA Achievement Awards and asteroid 2956 was named 2956 Yeomans in honor of his professional achievements. Dr. Yeomans received his Bachelor of Arts degree from Middlebury College and his Ph.D. in astronomy from the University of Maryland. Our final witness is Dr. Michael A'Hearn. Dr. A'Hearn is a Professor in the Astronomy Department at the University of Maryland. He is the Principal Investigator for the Deep Impact Mission and NASA's Discovery Impact Mission in NASA's Discovery Program and for the Small Bodies Node of NASA's Planetary Data System. His research emphasizes the study of comets and asteroids. Dr. A'Hearn received a Bachelor of Science degree in physics from Boston College and a Ph.D. in astronomy from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Now, we welcome you all. Thank you for being here. And Dr. Lu, we will begin with you. STATEMENT OF DR. ED LU, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, B612 FOUNDATION Dr. Lu. Thank you, Members of the Committee, and thank you, Chairman Smith, especially for your leadership on this issue. So my name is Ed Lu, and I am CEO of the B612 Foundation. I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify before the Committee to describe the B612 Foundation and its Sentinel Space Telescope project and the importance of that project. The B612 Foundation is a Silicon Valley-based nonprofit that is building, launching, and operating the Sentinel Space Telescope, which will find and track threatening asteroids. So NASA, at the direction of Congress, has found and tracked 95 percent of the large asteroids, those larger than a kilometer, that would likely end civilization were they to hit. So they have done a great job on that. And none of these civilization- enders is known--thus far discovered--is known to be on an impact course anytime in this upcoming century. So that is the good news. But NASA has not even come close to finding and tracking the one million smaller asteroids that might only just wipe out a city or perhaps collapse a rural economy if they hit in the wrong place. I would like to clarify something, and so I thought this image might be of help. I just show here a football stadium, which I understand now is Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and we show a couple of asteroids there, but just for scale. A 140-meter asteroid is not shown here, but it would roughly fit inside that stadium. And that is the size--when they hit, that would release about 100 megatons of energy, which is roughly five times all the munitions used in World War II. Okay. So that is much larger than a city killer. That is a regional killer. Okay. And NASA discovered and observed, tracked less than 10 percent of the asteroids in that size range, sort of the stadium-sized ones. A 40-meter asteroid, which is the larger of these two, is what you would really call a city killer. The last one to hit was in 1908 in Tunguska, and that had an impact energy about three to five megatons of energy. It destroyed about 1,000 square miles of Siberian forest. And we have observed and tracked well less than one percent of the million or so asteroids of that size. So if you ask how many city killers out there have we found and have tracked? Less than one percent is the answer. And there is about a 30 percent chance that there will be another impact of a city killer sometime this century, somewhere on the surface of the Earth. Just for reference, the smaller one shown there is about the size of the one that struck Chelyabinsk last month. So we simply don't know when the next catastrophic asteroid impact is going to be, because we simply haven't yet tracked the great majority of asteroids. Again, less than one percent of these city killers have been tracked. Yet we have the technology to deflect asteroids, and Dr. A'Hearn will probably talk a little bit about Deep Impact. It is--you--which is an experiment to actually hit an asteroid with a small spacecraft, and that is all you really need to do in most cases if you find the asteroids well in advance and--because you can't deflect an asteroid that you haven't yet tracked. Our technology is useless against something we haven't found. So that is why our number one priority from the standpoint of planetary defense is to find and track asteroids as soon as practical. You can't deflect an asteroid you haven't yet found, or for that matter, you can't capture it, you can't visit it, you can't mine it, you can't explore it until you have found it. So finding and tracking the roughly one million or so city killer asteroids in a reasonable time frame requires a system that can find tens to hundreds of thousands of them per year, right? If you are going to get to a million, you need to find them at a very high rate. Anything less than that, from a planetary defense standpoint, is just playing around the edges. So this task of finding those smaller asteroids cannot be done even by large ground-based telescopes, optical telescopes, and it especially cannot be done by small telescopes. So--and that is because asteroids are not only small but they are dark. Their color is often as dark as charcoal, and that makes them really dim. So these smaller asteroids are only spotted currently when they come very, very close to the Earth. So, because most of the large asteroids have been found, unfortunately, that means that amateur astronomers and people with smaller telescopes can no longer substantially contribute to this particular effort, nor will small space-based optical telescopes such as have been proposed by some commercial companies, they will not make a dent in this problem. But the fact that asteroids are dark can be used to our advantage, because when they are small and dark, they absorb light from the sun and they are warmed. And that means they are brighter than the background sky if you observe them in infrared. And when you observe them in infrared, you can see them at much greater distances than you can with optical telescopes. So as described in the National Academies report ``Defending Planet Earth,'' if you want to find a substantial fraction of city killer asteroids, you need a space-based infrared telescope. So that is what the B612 Foundation is doing. Our Sentinel Space Telescope is going to launch in 2018. It will orbit the sun about 30 million miles closer to the sun than the Earth in a solar orbit that is similar to the orbit of Venus, and that means Sentinel will not have a blind spot because--like Earth-based telescopes, which can only look at night looking away from the sun. Sentinel will always look away from the sun, looking outwards at Earth's orbit. So it will find and track as many asteroids as have been discovered by all other telescopes combined just in the first month of operation. Over six and a half years it will find over half a million asteroids, including more than 90 percent of the sort of stadium-sized ones, the regional killers, and the majority of those that are just city killers, the larger of these two asteroids. These asteroids will be tracked accurately enough to know if any of them is going to be on a course to hit Earth this century. So to carry out this mission, the B612 Foundation has assembled perhaps the finest technical team I have had the privilege of working with in my nearly two decades of involvement in aerospace, including 12 years as a NASA astronaut. The fact that we were able to recruit such a team is, I think, a testament to the inspiring and urgent nature of this mission. As we tell these people, who wouldn't want to have a chance to save the world? And that is really what I think drew them to the mission. So our major partner in transmitting our data back, as well as allowing some NASA experts to sit on some of our technical review panels, including, for instance, Dr. Yeomans here. The data generated by Sentinel will not only protect the people of planet Earth but will form the basis of future exploration and scientific missions. So a unique aspect of B612 is that we are carrying out this mission as a nonprofit. We do not receive any government financial support, and we are relying upon donations from individuals and foundations. These donors understand the importance of cataloging the environment we inhabit and the solar system, and they as individuals are making Sentinel happen because they know that our future may depend upon it. So make no mistake, raising this amount of money philanthropically with no expectation of financial return from our donors is challenging. But being a nonprofit has forced us to be very focused, and I believe it has made us resourceful. Our progress has been swift and we are approaching now the second of our eight milestones leading up to launch. The B612 Foundation is managing this project in an innovative Silicon Valley fashion with the rigor of a NASA project. So we are able to carry out this mission at what we believe to be about 60 percent of the cost as if it had been procured via federal procurement. So I should point out that the core technologies that Sentinel uses that allow us to detect dark objects via their infrared admissions would be useful to a number of federal agencies, including NASA, and there may be an opportunity to expand our existing public-private partnership with NASA in a manner that leverages our private donations, accelerates our technical progress and, in the end, provides the data that could protect us all. So we can protect the Earth from asteroid impacts, but we can't do it if we don't know where those asteroids are. And that is why the Sentinel telescope is so important. Chairman Smith. Okay, Dr.---- Dr. Lu. I can't think of a more inspiring mission. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Dr. Lu follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.015 Chairman Smith. You are at nine minutes and we need to move on. Are you--can you conclude? Dr. Lu. That was my conclusion. Chairman Smith. Okay. Good timing. Dr. Yeomans. STATEMENT OF DR. DONALD K. YEOMANS, MANAGER, NEAR-EARTH OBJECTS PROGRAM OFFICE, JET PROPULSION LABORATORY Dr. Yeomans. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss some issues related to near-Earth objects, and thank you all for your continuing interest in this topic. As noted by the Chairman, back on February 15, Friday, we had a 40 meter-sized object that passed within 17,200 miles of the Earth's surface and passed 5,000 miles within the geosynchronous ring of communication satellites that were announcing its arrival. Sixteen hours earlier on the same day, we had an impact over Chelyabinsk, Russia, of an 18 meter-sized object coming in at 42,000 miles per hour weighing 11,000 tons. And although I have been upstaged by Chairman Smith, I also have a piece of the rock that you may want to look at after the hearing. My point is that the close approach was a 1-in-40 year event for an object of this size getting that close. The impact of the smaller object over Chelyabinsk is a 1-in-100 year event, so very unlikely events do happen sometimes on the same day within 16 hours. Asteroid impacts with the Earth are extremely unlikely, but they could cause global problems. But if we discover them early enough, we have the technology to deflect them. Significant progress has been made to discover and understand the physical characteristics of near-Earth asteroids, largely as a result of NASA-supported efforts. For example, as pointed out, over 90 percent of those near-Earth asteroids larger than a kilometer have been found, and we have integrated their motions for 100 years into the future, and none of them represent a threat. About 25 percent of 140 meter- sized objects have already been found, and likewise, they do not represent a threat. So the goal is to find and track 90 percent of the 140 and larger sized objects, and in so doing, we will reduce the threat of all objects of all sizes to a 99 percent level. A thousand new near-Earth asteroids are discovered each year, almost all of them as a result of NASA-supported surveys. Twenty-seven thousand new asteroid observations per day are added to the archives at the Minor Planet Center in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and there is an increasing pace with which observations of near-Earth asteroid physical characteristics are being taken, including optical measurements, near infrared measurements, and radar measurements. The vast majority of near-Earth asteroid discoveries are currently being made by the Catalina Sky Survey near Tucson, Arizona, the Pan-STARRS Survey in Hawaii, and the Linear Program near Socorro, New Mexico. And these surveys are continuously improving their discovery efficiencies, and the next generation of near-Earth asteroid survey telescopes and cameras are under development. However, as pointed out by Ed, still undiscovered are 50 to 100 of the largest near-Earth asteroids and several thousand near-Earth asteroids larger than 140 meters. In fact, there was a two-kilometer--a new two-kilometer-sized asteroid that was announced today, so we still have a handful of large ones to find and several thousand of the smaller ones that are 140 meters and larger. A dramatic increase in the near-Earth asteroid discovery efficiencies is achievable using space-based infrared telescopes, either in a Venus-like orbit, as pointed out by Ed, or located about a million miles on the sunward side of the Earth at the so-called L1 point. The goal is to find the large near-Earth asteroids early enough to mount a deflection mission if necessary. The easiest and fastest deflection technique involves impacting a spacecraft on the asteroid with a rendezvous spacecraft there to monitor the success and verify that the object was moved just enough so that in 10 or 20 years, when it was predicted to hit the Earth, it would miss by a wide margin. What about the undiscovered millions of small near-Earth asteroids larger than 30 meters that are most likely to hit the Earth, the city killers, as Ed pointed out? Finding most of these near-Earth asteroids would be extremely challenging. Perhaps a cost-benefit study could establish the appropriate threat levels where it would make more sense to simply warn of an asteroid impact rather than finding it early enough to mount a deflection campaign. NASA is currently supporting a program called ATLAS at the University of Hawaii that is designed to find small objects a few days or a few weeks prior to impact. And the objective there, of course, is civil defense. If you find it several days in advance, you could evacuate if the object was threatening a populated area. So, in summary, with the current near-Earth asteroid threat identification process in place, and with considerable augmentations to NASA's Near-Earth Object Observation Program, we can determine which near-Earth objects represent potential future threats and do so with enough time to either deflect the larger objects or warn of the arrival of the smaller ones. Thank you for your attention. [The prepared statement of Dr. Yeomans follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.007 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.010 Chairman Smith. Thank you, Dr. Yeomans. I was also going to mention the book you wrote that just came out this year called ``Near-Earth Objects: Finding Them Before They Find Us.'' That is a nice subtitle. But I appreciate your writing about this subject, and who knows, maybe anticipating the publicity that subject would have this year as well. Thank you for your testimony. Dr. A'Hearn. STATEMENT OF DR. MICHAEL F. A'HEARN, VICE CHAIR, COMMITTEE TO REVIEW NEAR-EARTH OBJECT SURVEYS AND HAZARD MITIGATION STRATEGIES, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL Dr. A'Hearn. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation to appear today and to discuss a variety of aspects of the near-Earth object hazard. I will talk a little bit less about finding them than Don and Ed had done and more about what to do about it. Once we complete the George E. Brown survey down to 140 meters, we have taken care of a large fraction of the risk where we can get long advanced warning, and therefore, have plenty of time to mount a mitigation campaign. As was just pointed out regarding the ATLAS survey, that is designed for late discoveries, and as we go to really small ones, late discoveries will be a different kind of issue, because then we don't have time to do mitigation other than an evacuation for 30- to 50-meter city killer--and that is really more than a city. Tunguska was 2,000 square kilometers. You can, in principle, do evacuation, but if you get much larger than that, 75 meters, 100 meters, evacuation is no longer practical, and you need to have a plan in place with tested technologies to try to do mitigation on relatively short notice, because these are likely to be shorter notice than the ones we have been discovering so far where we have been aiming for years of advanced warning and plenty of time to plan how to mitigate. The mitigation is a key part of the hazard issue, and when the National Research Council issued its report, it suggested programs at a variety of different levels depending on how much insurance you wanted to buy basically. And if you really want to include mitigation as part of that, it is up at the couple of hundred million dollars a year level in order to include mitigation. Now, it is interesting that most of what we--much of what we know about mitigation so far has come from research programs. They are the ones that provide the physical characteristics. Earth-based remote sensing tells us about the sizes of the different asteroids, tells us about their surface composition, but not necessarily their interior. For a few of them, such as binaries, we can get interior bulk densities. But missions to these objects--we just heard a mention earlier from the Chairman of the sample return mission that will be launched in 2016. That mission will tell us a great deal about the structure of an asteroid--the internal structure and what the materials are, and therefore, what kind of techniques will work efficiently for mitigation. The Deep Impact Mission, of which I was a principal investigator in 2005, carried out an impact on the nucleus of comet Tempel 1. It showed first that cometary nuclei are remarkably porous. That makes them harder to push around than, say, a solid iron asteroid. And the rocky asteroids, which are fragmented, are somewhere in between. It demonstrated new techniques for autonomous navigation to lead to an impact. Whether you are doing a kinetic impact or a standoff nuclear explosion, it demonstrated how difficult the attitude control is when you get close to some of these. Milligram pieces of dirt or rock were bouncing our third-of-a-ton spacecraft around by many degrees, causing serious pointing problems. That is an important thing you need to do if you are developing mitigation. So these research programs are important because they are the only ones that are now providing us information on physical characteristics. Unfortunately, the Discovery Program has been devastated. It was originally conceived as at least one new mission every two years. In the 1990s there were six missions. In the 2000s there were five, the last of which was in 2007. Then, there was a five-year gap until the one that was selected in 2012, namely InSight, the mission to Mars. And with NASA's current plans, the announcement of opportunity for the next one won't be until 2015, which means selection to fly in 2017. So we are down to two per decade instead of the five a decade the decadal survey recommended and which was the basis for the original program. Frequent opportunities to go to space are critical. Also, just as it is important to partner with the private sector, it is crucial to also partner internationally for mitigation because mitigation can be seen as threatening. And we need to develop real mechanisms. We have talked a lot with potential international partners. We need to be talking to people who aren't our partners such as the Chinese, people who might think something we did in space was a threat rather than trying to help, and that needs to be something that we need to look very carefully at in the near future. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Dr. A'Hearn follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.021 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.023 Chairman Smith. Thank you, Dr. A'Hearn. I will recognize myself for questions. Dr. Lu, given the fact that we do have budget constraints and that funding is limited, what is the most--single most important thing we could do in this, say, next three- to five- year time period to detect these threatening asteroids? Dr. Lu. Well, if you are going to ask what is going to find the most number of these asteroids that--of anything that is currently planned, I think it is Sentinel pretty--by a pretty good margin. And if you were to ask, you know, to get to what Congressman Johnson mentioned, which is, you know, we are a private organization---- Dr. Lu [continuing]. There are opportunities to accelerate our development. You know, we could, in principle, deepen our relationship with our currently existing public-private partnership if we wanted to accelerate that. We understand again that the technology that we are developing--the core technologies are useful for lots of other things that the Federal Government finds important, and so, you know, one of the possibilities is to accelerate the technology development. Another possibility is if this data is worthwhile to NASA, if it is important to NASA, perhaps we could work out something where this data is purchased from us, and that way NASA only pays for it if the data is good and they could work with us to make sure that the--as they already are, that the quality of the data is what they need. Chairman Smith. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Lu. Dr. Yeomans, I am sure there is an answer to this that I should know, but we have always been told that in the case of near-Earth objects, the only alternative is to move them out of their orbit or deflect their trajectory so that there is no direct impact, and it doesn't do any good to explode those objects because then we just get a shower of near-Earth objects, many more but they are smaller. Is it--would it be possible to explode an incoming asteroid with such force that the pieces would be so small that they would burn up coming into the Earth's atmosphere? So is that a realistic alternative or not? Dr. Yeomans. Yes, it is actually. There has been some work done by Dave Dearborn at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories using computer simulations. If you insert an explosive charge and detonate it, you often get the fragments going off at such velocities and directions that what little does hit the Earth does so with very little damage. Chairman Smith. Why is so much, therefore--so much time, so much effort, so much focus on moving it out of its current trajectory? Why not more focus on what you just described? Dr. Yeomans. Well, it is actually considerably easier to run into it and slow it down a tiny little bit than to land on it and plant an explosive device and---- Chairman Smith. Okay. Another practical answer as well. Dr. Yeomans. It is technologically easier. Chairman Smith. Okay. Dr. A'Hearn, you mentioned about the time with--that would--we would have or not have if we detected an incoming object and had to deflect it. What would be the average time that we would have, say, of a city killer-sized asteroid? I guess it depends on whether you are using ground- based telescopes or space-based telescopes, but say in the next three to five years, how much time would we have if we developed the Sentinel program and were able to detect these objects? Dr. A'Hearn. I will defer questions on the sensitivity of Sentinel to Ed Lu---- Dr. A'Hearn [continuing]. But in general, it is important to remember we have only ever detected one incoming object before it hit. Chairman Smith. We have a long way to go---- Dr. A'Hearn. That was less than a day out. Chairman Smith. Okay. Dr. Lu---- Dr. A'Hearn. And that was very small. Chairman Smith. Do you have any ideas on how much---- Dr. Lu. The goal for Sentinel is to find things decades before they hit so that you can deflect them rather than evacuate. Chairman Smith. We have plenty of time. At our first hearing, Dr. Holdren made the point, I think, that only two percent of the Earth's surface consists of urban areas and so that further diminishes the possibility of a city sustaining a direct hit. I am not sure that is much consolation to those who live in rural areas by the way, but at least it was interesting as far as the amount of damage that might occur. But thank you all. You have answered my questions. And the gentlewoman from Texas, the Ranking Member Ms. Johnson, is recognized for hers. Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much. Dr. Lu, I realize that details over NASA's proposal in its FY 2014 budget request to conduct a mission to an asteroid with humans and other asteroid-related activities are just trickling out. A story over the weekend reported concerns about the asteroid initiative from two sources. One worried that NASA's activities may interfere with the private-sector efforts. Another was critical of the absence of international collaboration. Based on what you have read or know of NASA's plans, are such concerns warranted? Dr. Lu. I don't think so. I believe that--you know, I, as much as anybody, want our human spaceflight program to have a clear, defined, and inspiring goal. However, I don't think-- this mission should not be confused of one that is planetary defense. That is a very--it is a different mission---- Ms. Johnson. Um-hum. Dr. Lu [continuing]. What that proposed mission is to do. Ms. Johnson. Dr. Yeomans, can you share details on NASA's asteroid detection effort or efforts that are scheduled to benefit from the increase for the coming fiscal year? Dr. Yeomans. Yes, it is my understanding that the asteroid retrieval mission is primarily a technology test of the solar electric propulsion system. It is also a rendezvous with a small asteroid with an attempt to bring it back into a lunar orbit. It has components for NASA's human exploration program. And, of course, the most challenging first part of this whole mission idea is to find a suitable target. So the plus-up that you mentioned in the budget will certainly provide a commensurate increase in the number of objects that are discovered and could be utilized for space resources, scientific investigations, planetary defense, as well as a target for this mission. Ms. Johnson. Dr. A'Hearn, did you have any comment? Dr. A'Hearn. No, I have no further comments. Ms. Johnson. Thank you. Now, in the first round of hearings that we had, there was mention of an orbiting telescope, which we don't have access to. Could either of you comment on the value of having an orbiting telescope? Dr. Lu. Well, the Sentinel is an orbiting telescope---- Ms. Johnson. It is. Dr. Lu [continuing]. But it does not orbit the Earth. It orbits the sun. But it is a space telescope. Dr. Yeomans. There is also---- Ms. Johnson. Yes. Dr. Yeomans. There is also a concept where you have a spacecraft a million miles sunward of the Earth also orbiting the sun, but it is closer to Earth and could be looking out toward near-Earth asteroids as well. Ms. Johnson. So in view of the seemingly increased interest for activity of the asteroids, how do you see an investment in an orbiting telescope that would orbit the sun or in a place it is not orbiting now? Do you see any value? Dr. Yeomans. Oh, yes. Yes, as Ed mentioned, the benefit of having a telescope in space is several-fold. First of all, you can use an infrared detection system, and these objects are much brighter in the infrared and much easier to find than in the optical region. You don't have problems with weather or day and night. You can observe these objects from a viewpoint that the Earth cannot, so you sometimes get an advanced warning in that respect. So it is a far more efficient system from space. Ms. Johnson. Any other comment? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Hall, the Chairman Emeritus is recognized for his questions. Mr. Hall. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I probably ought to just write a book on this, my questions, because I have so many. And this is your second hearing, is that right? Mr. Hall [continuing]. And I admire you for it. You are almost seeking something that is impossible from the numbers even than that I have heard here. Olin ``Tiger'' Teague, whose picture is right over there, ought to be known as the father of NASA. And you might even become the father of characterizing Earth objects and how close they are. But I think you are going to have to have some overseas hearings. We have had this second one and four more just like this probably won't yield any definite answers. But it is a very interesting matter, a very interesting item. But how could we ask--and maybe, Dr. Yeomans, on to the near objects program, like in the 2013 worldwide attention in the city of Chelyabinsk in Russia--injured a lot of people but didn't kill anyone is what I understand. And the others that I remember and that we have heard about, a lot of injuries, but what--they didn't know it was coming and didn't know what we-- when we had that hearing--and I think I testified to this before--we found out in that hearing that one had passed Earth and just missed us by 15 minutes. And that could be a jillion miles away, but that is where they put it. It had missed Earth by 15 minutes, and nobody even knew it was coming until it had come and gone. So--and we made every effort to get in touch with nations like Japan, Spain, Italy, England, France to send somebody over here to testify with us because it has to be a world for us if we are going to really do anything about it. We can't pave the way like we spent 34 billion on global warming. My President spent 34 million on that and haven't done anything on it. But it looks like we are going to have to have world input to ever be anywhere near efficient on making the determination that all the people in the world that I want. But we couldn't get any interest at all. And I think this Chairman of this Committee that that would be a very good thing if you could have some hearings, maybe in England, be at the places and get their interest up because it is going to take their working with us to make anything happen. I guess the only question I would have is, Dr. Yeomans, whether you know of any private organizations that are involved in near-Earth object detection like Boeing or Lockheed or McDonnell Douglas or Texas Instruments? You know, I would like to get them into it but they can't do it themselves. So that is just something to think about. Do you have any suggestions on the private organizations and how they might work into it? Dr. Yeomans. Well, Ed---- Mr. Hall. They said at one time a laser could affect them just a little bit but it didn't say how much. Dr. Yeomans. That is true. If you had a laser nearby, you could ablate the front side and introduce a thrust in the opposite direction. But in terms of the international cooperation, I couldn't agree more. In fact, the European Space Agency has been getting more and more interest in this near- Earth asteroid discussion. Recently, they are actually funding the so-called NEOShield program to look at various mitigation options, including kinetic impactors. There is an activity within U.N., COPUOS, the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, and NASA is involved with that working group to try and define an international warning system, with the response protocols that would be required in the event of an incoming object. Who would be in charge? Who-- -- Mr. Hall. Dr. Lu suggested NASA. The reason I thought about ``Tiger'' Teague, Olin Teague, and all the work he did in even getting it off the ground and supporting it with funds that we don't have today. And we can't go to Mars until people can go to the grocery store, so I don't know how we are going to talk about protecting the world if we don't have world support. And it would be a great thing for this Chairman if the government doesn't have the money to send them, he has personal wealth if he could maybe take four or five of us over there. And I think he is going to tell me my time is over. I yield back what time I do have. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Mr. Hall. The gentlewoman from Connecticut, Ms. Esty, is recognized for her questions. Ms. Esty. Thank you very much. I wanted to follow up a little bit on--we have had discussion previously about this international issue which, Doctor, you had mentioned. Can you explain to us what is currently done in terms of data sharing? And perhaps, Dr. Lu, if you could discuss if you have even contemplated now for your project, it not being a governmental project, being private nonprofit, what you would contemplate being that data-sharing aspect for your organization? Dr. Lu. Yeah, I--you know, our intention as a public nonprofit is to put the data out there so as many scientists can see the data and use the data and warn people if there is things in the data that show that something is going to hit the Earth. So that is our plan. But actually, if I could add one other thing. Don't get the impression that finding asteroids--while it is a lot of money-- is something that requires enormous amounts of money. For instance, I mean our telescope, which will find and track a great majority of these asteroids, is less than the cost of-- there is a road-widening project in the San Francisco Bay area in the town of Burlingame that is more expensive than our telescope. And that is why we went about this as a private fundraising effort. We are less expensive than a museum. There is a wing of an art museum in San Francisco that cost more than our project. And that is privately raised money. It is not enormous. I mean, it is a lot for individuals, but it can be done. Ms. Esty. If I can follow up, actually. That was very helpful, because I did want to ask a little bit more. What are the specifics? What are your plans if you--obviously, we know that in the past NASA has encountered cost overruns for a variety of reasons. What are your plans as an organization if you discover, say, in the development or in the research phase that something you anticipated will work does not quite work the way you expect it? Would you go back to funders? What does that do? How--and also, frankly, how close are you to raising the $450 million that you have budgeted? When will you start? Will you do it in tranches if you don't have it ready? What are your plans for ensuring that? Because we are hearing from everyone if you don't have the money set at the outset, you end up embedding cost overruns because it just takes longer. Dr. Lu. We are using existing technology to the extent we can, and we actually have a firm fixed price contract, which is--so in other words, the risk is borne by our contractor Ball Aerospace. And yes, we are raising the money in tranches. This year, our goal--fundraising goal is $20 million. And we are well on our way towards that for this year. Ms. Esty. So how much of the total do you have--would that have you at? Dr. Lu. Well, this really is our first full year since we have begun our fundraising. We announced on June 28 of last year. Our needs were quite small last year, in the single-digit millions. This year, they are accelerating, and next year they will accelerate even more, so our peak spending rate will be in the range of $100 million for a year or so, and then it will taper back down. But we can finance this over a much longer period. Ms. Esty. And just a question for all of you somewhat. If we have congressional mandates that, say, previously would have been directed to NASA as a governmental organization and Congress says we need to see this data because we need to make decisions, for the doctors who are not in the private entity, how would you contemplate we should--would structure that? And how would that operate? Dr. Yeomans. Well, I think it is important to point out that NASA does have a Space Act Agreement with the Sentinel group for providing navigation and tracking of their spacecraft. Once their data are taken, it would come through the NASA channels. It will go to the Minor Planet Center in Cambridge, Massachusetts, then it would come to our program office at JPL, and then we would interact with our Italian colleagues and we would post our results for the world. So it is quite a transparent data-sharing process even though it is privately funded, for the most part. Dr. A'Hearn. Yes, I was just going to comment that in my experience the data on finding and tracking near-Earth objects and on predicting the orbits of them all becomes very public very quickly. There has never been a problem getting the data. The only problems are what to do with it. Ms. Esty. Thank you all very much. Chairman Smith. Thank you, Ms. Esty. The gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher, is recognized for his questions. Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much. I will try to be as fast as I can here. First of all, I would like to note---- Chairman Smith. And Mr. Rohrabacher, if you will suspend for a minute, I want to let the Members know that after this series of questions, we are going to recess for about 45 minutes so we can go conduct three votes, and then we will resume the markup after the votes. And the gentleman continues to be recognized. Mr. Rohrabacher. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And number one, first of all, Mr. Chairman, I would like to agree with Chairman Hall and his recommendation that we work with you and Members of both sides of the aisle to try to find international cooperation on an effort that deserves to be not just the responsibility of the American taxpayers but people of the Earth united against this common threat. Let me note there are other groups like the Planetary Society, headed up by Bill Nye, who are very involved with this issue. And I have a statement that I would like--of Mr. Nye that I would like to put in the record at this point. Chairman Smith. Without objection, so ordered. [The information may be found in Appendix II.] Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much. Next, I would mention there are two recently formed companies that have as their goal mining asteroids: the Planetary Resources, Deep Space Industries. Both of these companies have impressive teams, and I would hope that at some future date we might be able to bring them to testify about their activities and the expertise that they are developing. Dr. Lu, I found your testimony to be very interesting. We have to assume that either road construction in San Francisco is incredibly expensive or that we have in some way brought down the cost of your efforts--space efforts. I find--and it was your testimony that B612 does not in any way receive any taxpayer funding? Dr. Lu. That is correct. Mr. Rohrabacher. Congratulations, Dr. Lu. I want to say that for the record, congratulations. And I understand that the Sentinel mission under the Foundation actually has been operating with fixed-term prices that you are dealing with your--with the companies that you have to deal business with. Is that correct? Dr. Lu. That is correct. Mr. Rohrabacher. So you have a fixed-price term. We have been told over--again and again, Mr. Chairman, that we can't have these fixed-price contracts. For example, with our polar weather satellites, oh, you can't have a fixed-price contract. Perhaps this private sector group here that doesn't receive any of our government money is showing us how we can keep some of the costs down. And let me just suggest that we need to get more private money, more international cooperation. This is a serious threat to the--not only to the well-being but even, perhaps, to the survival of humankind on this planet, and it deserves us to work together and to do so in a cost-effective way. And we can't do anything nowadays unless it is in a cost-effective way. I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing, and I just will leave it at that. And I appreciate your efforts and am totally supportive. Chairman Smith. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher. And I know this subject has been of long-time interest to you as well. As I say, we are going to recess for about 45 minutes, and then I hope Members who still have questions will return. And if you all can possibly stay, that would be great. I understand one witness may have to leave, and if that is the case, we understand that as well. So thank you all, and we will return and we will recess until about 45 minutes from now. [Recess.] Mr. Palazzo. [Presiding] I want to thank the witnesses for staying behind for this important Committee hearing. And at this time, I am going to recognize Ms. Bonamici for five minutes. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much for your testimony and thank you for staying. Sorry we had to leave to vote. I wanted to talk a little bit about how we respond. And Dr. A'Hearn, in your prepared statement, you indicate the Academies' 2010 report provided options geared to how much money Congress wished to appropriate to buy insurance against an impact, and you described evacuation for small impactors is one approach to mitigation and noted the panel's recommendation that a research program be instituted to better understand mitigation approaches. I represent a district in Oregon that contains coastline, and my constituents on the coast are frequently talking about being prepared, emergency preparedness for tsunamis and earthquakes, and so these are certainly analogous situations. In our prior hearing, there was a discussion about evacuations in response to a meteor incident. So what would be the nature of the recommended research as it applies to evacuations? I know that when we are talking over in the Oregon coast now they don't have a lot of time from the time they find out about a tsunami to get upland. So what do you see as the most cost-effective insurance, and can you talk a little bit about preparing for a meteor impact, please? Dr. A'Hearn. I think the most important issue is that we don't have a really solid theory of how big a tsunami you will get from a given size impact. There are simulations that disagree by huge factors on how big a tsunami you will get at various places. So on that specific issue, I think that is the key thing that needs to be done. It depends on the size of the impact or, of course, depends on the velocity it comes in, the speed, and it depends on the density. You know, is it really solid or is it mostly porous? But for any given case even, there are disagreements in the theoretical literature on what the effect will be. So that is the biggest issue. Once you know how big the tsunami will be, then you will get a better feeling for how far you have to evacuate to get to high ground. And I am not familiar with how much time is needed in any specific area. Ms. Bonamici. Sure. That is dependent, I think, on the geography. And to all the panel members, how should the policy--how should we approach the policy and legal issues in addressing warning the public? My constituents at home are worried about finding a job and about too many kids in the classroom, so--and on the coast, they are worried about a tsunami and they went through, you know, after the earthquake in Japan, some emergency preparedness, but there is still a lot to do. So what is the best way for us as policymakers to approach this warning and preparedness, and how should we handle that on national and international levels? What is your advice? Dr. Yeomans. If I could respond. There is an ongoing effort within the United Nations' Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space to address these issues, and one of the key issues, as you noted, is how do we best warn the public, give them the facts without scaring them? So on the international level within this Committee, these discussions are ongoing. And that is one of the issues that is front and center. We don't have a process in place. I mean, we are scientists so we can say we are going to impact probably at such and such a time, but that is not necessarily the most effective communication with the public. So we have to bring in folks who are more experienced in communicating risks, not just scientists. I would suggest that perhaps once these discussions are completed in, hopefully, another year, then effective communications would come out of that. Ms. Bonamici. Dr. Lu, do you have any input on---- Dr. Lu. Yeah, my opinion is that we should not find out what the impact of a large asteroid is in the ocean and-- because we have the technology to prevent that. Ms. Bonamici. Um-hum. Dr. Lu. And we should go out there and find these asteroids, find out if any of them are going to hit us, and the deflect it. And I think we can do that. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. And my time is about to expire. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Palazzo. I now recognize Mr. Posey for five minutes. Mr. Posey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Somebody mentioned climate change study a little while ago. You know, asteroids took care of that at one time, and if it happens again, we will not have global warming. They can fix that forever. Out of curiosity for the three of you, the Administration is excited about privatizing space to the greatest extent possible. What do you think would be an appropriate number for an X prize type of arrangement for identifying and destroying an asteroid, just off the top of your head, all three of you, starting with Dr. Lu? Dr. Lu. Well, if you ask the question--I mean what would it take to find these asteroids first for the first part of the X prize. It is really a two-step process. Mr. Posey. Right. Dr. Lu. I would lay a number out that would be equivalent to whatever--you know, some fraction of what NASA would have spent if they did it themselves. And that number is probably in the range, according to the NRC report, $800 million to a billion. So pick some fraction of that. That is why we think we can do it for $450 million, and that is what our contract specifies. But if you put the prize somewhere around there, then NASA is guaranteed to save money if it succeeds. Mr. Posey. Yeah, and if it doesn't, the money is never spent. Dr. Lu. Exactly. Mr. Posey. Okay. How about--that is to find one. Does that include destroying it? Dr. Lu. No, but I think if you--once you find them, remember that you will now know if there is something that is going to hit that is a definite threat in the next century. And now you have got time to do it right. And also I think money is also no object if something is really barreling down on the Earth and you know the time, date, and place that thing is going to hit. I think we can come together and solve that issue. Mr. Posey. Okay. Thank you. Dr. Yeomans? Dr. Yeomans. I would add that NASA already has 15 years of experience in this area of identifying objects. They have three programs underway, ground-based optical detection. I would suggest perhaps a study that could be undertaken to see whether we could leverage those assets to improve what is already there by bringing online new technology and new telescopes along with studies to flesh out what is the most effective way of deflecting an object that is found on an Earth-threatening trajectory. My comment would be, we should leverage existing activities and facilities. Mr. Posey. Okay. Well, it is my understanding the Small Bodies Assessment Group at Lunar Planetary Institute was chartered for the specific purpose of evaluating those types of missions and the priorities of the scientific community for near-Earth objects. How has NASA collaborated or leveraged its information with this group in planning of the Asteroid Capture Mission? Dr. Yeomans. I am not intimately involved with the connection between the Small Bodies Assessment Group and this mission that you mentioned. So I am not aware of what has and what has not been communicated between those two. Mr. Posey. Okay. Are either of the others familiar with it, Dr. A'Hearn? Dr. A'Hearn. I know essentially nothing more about this mission than I have read in the newspapers and in Administrator Bolden's release this morning. I am not aware that the Small Bodies Assessment Group has been given any information on it. They may have been, but I am not aware of it, so I am not going to comment further. Mr. Posey. That was my feeling and that is why the question. Dr. Lu. Dr. Lu. I also am not aware of the connection between the two. Mr. Posey. Okay. You know, all of your written testimony mentioned obviously the asteroid mitigation, and I know we have to identify them before we can divert them or destroy them. We all knew that. But, you know, assuming that the development of a strategy and technology would take a considerable time, you know, obviously perhaps years, what steps do you think we should be taking in the meantime in case our search uncovers a threat, which we all know is not a matter of if but when? Dr. Lu. I think it would be prudent to do a deflection demonstration mission, pick an asteroid that you know is not anywhere near hitting the Earth and show that you can deflect it in a controlled manner so that it doesn't break up into pieces where you don't know where they are going and so on. I think that can be done. Mr. Posey. Okay. Dr. A'Hearn. I would agree that a demonstration deflection mission is an appropriate thing to do, and a deflection mission is ideally suited for the international collaboration that I think is needed in this area, because typically you need to send two spacecraft, one of which does the deflection and the other of which monitors the effectiveness of it. Depending on whether you are doing a gravity tractor or kinetic impactor or--we presumably would not do a nuclear one as a test and the ability to have international collaboration on coordinating two spacecraft is important to get the various countries trusting that we are not trying to divert something to land somewhere else. Mr. Posey. Interesting. I hadn't thought about that but I think you are correct. Dr. Yeomans, Mr. Chairman, can he finish? Dr. Yeomans. Can I add something? There is an interesting concept pertinent to your point whereby NASA would use the excess launch capability for the InSight spacecraft to Mars, have a co-launch of an impactor much like the Deep Impact mission, and that would go and collide with the asteroid that the Osiris Rex mission has already picked for their target. So the Osiris Rex mission is already resident, and you would have this impactor coming in, and you can measure the deflection. So it is a nice leveraging of an existing launch and an existing rendezvous spacecraft. So that would be one instructing deflection demonstration. Mr. Posey. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Palazzo. You are welcome. I now recognize Mr. Stewart for five minutes. Mr. Stewart. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thanks for being here. It gives me faith in our future knowing that there are people a lot smarter than me who are working on some of these things. I am not going to ask in real detail. I would like to just kind of encapsulate what I think we have said but bring some clarity to it before with some very quick questions. But before we do, can I just divert for just a second with this, and that is, you know, the old formula E = MC2, and you have talked a lot about the mass of these meteorites, potential, you know, objects, but is velocity a consideration, too? In other words, are some of the smaller ones, are they traveling at such a speed that they would have an equally devastating outcome or are most of these objects kind of traveling at about the same speed out there? Dr. Lu. Most of them are--well, they are orbiting the sun, so the typical velocities that they hit is really independent of the size of the asteroid, and that is between 15 and, say, 25 kilometers per second. Mr. Stewart. Okay. Dr. Lu. So 40,000 miles an hour or so. Mr. Stewart. So that is--I mean that is a fairly good range. Fifteen to 25 is, what, 40 percent or something like that? But their velocity doesn't really matter. It really is just the size and the weight of the object? Dr. Lu. Well, it is a combination of the destructive power, it is a combination of the speed and the mass. But from the standpoint of deflection, it doesn't much matter. Mr. Stewart. Okay. Yes, sir, Dr. A'Hearn. Dr. A'Hearn. I was going to just add to that. Indeed, 15 to 25 kilometers per second is the right ballpark for the asteroids. It is one of the things you have to keep in mind, however, if you deal with the cometary impact hazard. Those come in at more like 30 to 70 kilometers per second. Now, they are very infrequent compared to the asteroids, but one of a given size will be much more damaging because of that high speed of entry compared to the asteroid. Mr. Stewart. Yeah, okay. And I appreciated your visual that you showed us at the beginning. It kind of gives us a sense of the scope there. I know there was a recent comet that was discovered in January that was looking like it was going to have a near miss with Mars, and it would have been a devastating event for--had that, you know, impacted the Earth, a dinosaur killing type event. And as I recall, it was two years is what the, you know, estimated impact time would be. Of course, we know it is going to miss it now. If that had been directed toward Earth in two years, is there realistically anything we could have done? Dr. Lu. It would be very difficult. Mr. Stewart. Probably not, is that true? Dr. Lu. Yeah. Mr. Stewart. So can you give me an idea? I know you are speculating, but I mean what--how much time do we need? Do we need 10 years. Do we need 20? Do we need eight? I mean, how long do we need before we could actually do something even if we detected an object that was going to impact the Earth? Dr. Lu. I think with 10 years you can do this in a controlled manner with backups and so on. Certainly, with 20 years you could do that. It gets much more difficult the closer in it is, and that is, again, the importance of getting early warning, because the closer it is to you, the more you need to deflect it by to get it to miss. Mr. Stewart. Yeah Dr. Lu. So it gets much, much harder the earlier--the less warning you have. Mr. Stewart. Let's put that aside, that consideration of the energy to deflect it. In two years from now, could we--are we technologically capable of launching something that could intercept it? Dr. A'Hearn, you seem to be shaking your head ``no.'' Dr. A'Hearn. No. If we had spacecraft plans on the books already, that would take a year--I mean a typical small mission like a Discovery class mission takes four years from approval to start to launch. Okay. Now, a really accelerated military program would be faster than that but that is a couple of years still. Mr. Stewart. Yeah. Dr. A'Hearn. And you would have to have something ready to launch, basically, if you wanted to do it on very short notice. Ten years, 20 years, then you have got time to plan it. Five years or less, it is really hard unless you have thought the problem through and design things, maybe have components built, maybe have a full system but---- Mr. Stewart. Because what we need, we have nothing like this right now. We are not taking an existing weapons system or existing vehicle and modifying it. We are really starting from scratch to do this, true? Dr. A'Hearn. Well, you would try to use it from existing components. I mean you could--you would--if you were going to do a kinetic impact, you might scale up what was done for Deep Impact to larger launch vehicle, larger impactor, and things like that. So it is not quite starting from scratch, but it is starting from a pretty low point. Mr. Stewart. Yeah. Okay. And then last question--well, I tell you what, I am out of time. I would love to talk with you further, but I appreciate you--again you being here. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Palazzo. I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the Members for their questions. The Members of the Committee may have additional questions for you, and we will ask you to respond to those in writing. The record will remain open for two weeks for additional comments and written questions from Members. The witnesses are excused, and this hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:13 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] Appendix I ---------- Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Responses by Dr. Ed Lu [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.025 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.029 Responses by Dr. Donald K. Yeomans [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.030 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.032 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.033 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.034 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.035 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.037 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.038 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.042 Responses by Dr. Michael F. A'Hearn [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.044 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.045 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.046 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.047 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.056 Appendix II ---------- Additional Material for the Record Submitted statement by Representative Steve Stockman, Committee on Science, Space and Technology Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity to address the Subcommittee on this most important topic. Our Nation--indeed, our world--faces threats in the future from asteroids too small to be detected by our present means but large enough to do unspeakable damage to our population centers. Witness the recent event in Russia, which has raised worldwide awareness of the potential threat. Clearly, it is important for us to increase the sophistication of our space sensors so we can detect them in advance. But once we spot them, we must ask: what can we do to protect the people? This Committee is to be commended for its recognition of this important issue, and I appreciate this opportunity to address a unique technology that could provide us with a potential arrow for our quiver of planetary defense. That unique capability is being developed by a small, high-technology American company named Ad Astra Rocket, located in Webster, Texas next to NASA's Johnson Space Flight Center. The company is perfecting the ``VASIMR'' plasma rocket engine, a game-changing electric propulsion system which originated at NASA under the leadership of its inventor, Dr. Franklin Chang Diaz, a former NASA astronaut. Incidentally, more than four years ago, during his U.S. Senate confirmation hearing testimony, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden described the 25-year efforts of Dr. Chang Diaz and his small team at NASA who kept this technology alive on only ``a small stipend'' from NASA. Since it spun off from NASA in 2005, Ad Astra has continued VASIMR development--at a much faster pace and exclusively with private funds that brought the technology to a high state of maturity. At a power level of 200 kilowatts, their prototype is one of the most powerful plasma rockets operating in the world. It has been fired reliably more than 10,000 times in their vacuum chamber. I know this is not the only advanced rocket being studied today. Other technologies, such as hall thrusters and ion engines, are being developed by NASA. However, while NASA remains an American space technology powerhouse, the world has changed since the opening of the space age in the 1950s and 60s, and U.S. innovation in rocket technology is no longer confined to NASA. It exists as well in small entrepreneurial start-ups such as Ad Astra and others that help maintain our nation's technological edge razor sharp. The government must keep pace with this changing paradigm and resist becoming a de- facto competitor with the private sector. It must ensure that fair and open competition is promoted and supported at all levels. Judging from its recent performance results, the VASIMR technology certainly deserves the opportunity to show what it can do. Now one of those potential missions--and the major focus of our hearing today--is rocket technology to help us avoid a near Earth asteroid collision by deflecting it away from the Earth. In response to this, Ad Astra recently undertook a study on how this might be accomplished. Their concept involves a solar powered robotic craft, propelled by Ad Astra's high power VASIMR rockets that, upon arriving at the asteroid, uses the plasma exhaust of one of its two engines (the other is used to keep the craft in place) to gently push the object for days or weeks, depending on the asteroid's trajectory. A recent numerical simulation successfully demonstrated the deflection of a 40,000 ton asteroid similar to the one that barely missed Earth last February and larger than the one that actually hit Russia. In their study, the team also assumed--as it actually happened--only one year advance warning to execute the mission. This was just an initial concept evaluation. The team is now further developing the full range of their mission capability. The rocket used is the 200kW VASIMR VF- 200, the same model being tested in the laboratory today, and the same model the company wishes to test on the ISS in 2016. The technology has multiple applications which go far beyond asteroid deflection, and include more economical space station re- boost, satellite deployment, retrieval and mitigation of orbital debris. This propulsion technology also enables larger payloads and much faster robotic and ultimately human missions to Mars and other points in deep space. The Company's next step is to test the engine on the International Space Station in early 2016--a test which will validate the technology for commercial use. Ad Astra has signed an agreement with NASA to move forward on this test. As a National Laboratory, the U.S. portion of the ISS offers a unique test environment for this technology, and beyond accomplishing this important demonstration, Ad Astra's proposed electric power and propulsion test facility would actually enhance the ISS research infrastructure by providing an unprecedented power storage capability that would enable other high power experiments of great importance to developing a robust human space exploration framework. Ad Astra continues to commit its resources to achieving this critical milestone. In my opinion, this is a valuable technology for NASA to invest in, both for the planned 2016 validation test on ISS, as well as for asteroid deflection and space debris cleanup. With such investments, the VASIMR team is prepared to step forward and undertake a number of game-changing near-term missions for NASA and the commercial space sector. These will help maintain U.S. innovation and leadership in the new frontier of commercial space and ultimately help pave the way for a robust and economically sustainable exploration of the solar system. At a recent hearing before this Committee on asteroids, a number of experts were concerned that there were no good answers or solutions on the horizon for dealing with the threats from asteroids. Mr. Chairman, American ingenuity, such as the VASIMR electric propulsion technology, will lead the way as part of the solution to the threat from asteroids. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Submitted statement by Representative Donna F. Edwards It was clear from the first hearing the Committee held on this issue a few weeks ago that the problem of near-Earth objects (NEO) impacting Earth and possibly causing great harm is worrisome but preventable--if we put our minds and resources into it. It is also clear that this Committee has been at the forefront of ensuring that NASA be tasked with detecting such NEOs. Unfortunately, it appears that at the present time, we still have a way to go. Just take what recently transpired in Hawaii. According to media reports, construction and staff jobs at the Pan- STARRS telescope system in Hawaii, which is used for near-Earth object observation, among other purposes, had to be rescued by an anonymous $3 million donation after federal funding was cut. Imagine that, a capability critical to saving the world from potentially hazardous asteroids needed to be saved by a private donor. But wait, it doesn't stop there. Because of the recent sequester, NASA is suspending, effective immediately, all education and public outreach activities. In terms of scope, this includes all education and public outreach efforts conducted by programs and projects. Needless to say, it will be hard to increase public awareness of what NASA is doing in detecting NEOs under this suspension. At this hearing, we will hear how nongovernment entities are proposing to use their own funds to save the Earth by detecting, characterizing, and perhaps even deflecting asteroids. Some of these entities are driven by a noble cause, to save humanity, and are banking on philanthropists to finance their efforts. Others, who are planning to mine asteroids to extract ore and minerals, see their efforts as useful for detection and characterization, since one needs to know where these asteroids are and what their composition is likely to be before a mining mission is chosen. Now, don't get me wrong. I think it's great if the government doesn't have to foot the entire bill for proposed missions and technologies. But what happens when something does not work, or when donations or investor contributions do not materialize? Is it prudent for the world to solely bank on the success of these nongovernment efforts? What happens when a private initiative is no longer an option? Would the government need to step in? So there are a number of questions this Committee should be examining, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on their perspectives. Planetary Society Report submitted by Representative Rohrabacher [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.058 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0555.059