[House Hearing, 113 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] OVERSIGHT OF FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK AUTHORITY (FIRSTNET) AND EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY OF THE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ MARCH 14, 2013 __________ Serial No. 113-16 Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce energycommerce.house.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 80-378 WASHINGTON : 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Printing Office. Phone 202�09512�091800, or 866�09512�091800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE FRED UPTON, Michigan Chairman RALPH M. HALL, Texas HENRY A. WAXMAN, California JOE BARTON, Texas Ranking Member Chairman Emeritus JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky Chairman Emeritus JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey GREG WALDEN, Oregon BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois LEE TERRY, Nebraska ANNA G. ESHOO, California MIKE ROGERS, Michigan ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania GENE GREEN, Texas MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee LOIS CAPPS, California Vice Chairman MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania PHIL GINGREY, Georgia JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana JIM MATHESON, Utah ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington JOHN BARROW, Georgia GREGG HARPER, Mississippi DORIS O. MATSUI, California LEONARD LANCE, New Jersey DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, Virgin BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana Islands BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky KATHY CASTOR, Florida PETE OLSON, Texas JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia JERRY McNERNEY, California CORY GARDNER, Colorado BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa MIKE POMPEO, Kansas PETER WELCH, Vermont ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia PAUL TONKO, New York GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida BILL JOHNSON, Missouri BILLY LONG, Missouri RENEE L. ELLMERS, North Carolina Subcommittee on Communications and Technology GREG WALDEN, Oregon Chairman ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio ANNA G. ESHOO, California Vice Chairman Ranking Member JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts LEE TERRY, Nebraska MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania MIKE ROGERS, Michigan DORIS O. MATSUI, California MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana PETER WELCH, Vermont LEONARD LANCE, New Jersey BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan CORY GARDNER, Colorado FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey MIKE POMPEO, Kansas BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado BILLY LONG, Missouri JIM MATHESON, Utah RENEE L. ELLMERS, North Carolina G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina JOE BARTON, Texas HENRY A. WAXMAN, California, ex FRED UPTON, Michigan, ex officio officio C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hon. Greg Walden, a Representative in Congress from the state of Oregon, opening statement...................................... 1 Prepared statement........................................... 3 Hon. Anna G. Eshoo, a Representative in Congress from the state of California, opening statement............................... 4 Hon. Fred Upton, a Representative in Congress from the state of Michigan, opening statement.................................... 6 Prepared statement........................................... 6 Hon. Henry A. Waxman, a Representative in Congress from the state of California, opening statement............................... 7 Witnesses Samuel Ginn, Chairman, First Responder Network Authority......... 8 Prepared statement........................................... 11 Answers to submitted questions............................... 215 Christopher McIntosh, statewide Interoperability Coordinator, Virginia....................................................... 38 Prepared statement........................................... 40 Answers to submitted questions............................... 228 Ray Lehr, Director, statewide Communications Interoperability Coordinator, Maryland.......................................... 48 Prepared statement........................................... 50 Answers to submitted questions............................... 231 James A. Barnett, Jr., Rear Admiral U.S. Navy (Ret.), Former Chief, Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, Partner and Co-Chair, Telecommunications Group, Venable LLP.......................... 55 Prepared statement........................................... 57 Answers to submitted questions............................... 232 Declan Ganley, Chairman and CEO, Rivada Networks................. 118 Prepared statement........................................... 120 David Turetsky, Chief, Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau, Federal Communications Commission...................... 152 Prepared statement........................................... 155 Answers to submitted questions............................... 240 Diane Kniowski, President and General Manager, WOOD/WOTV/WXSP, Lin Media...................................................... 166 Prepared statement........................................... 168 Christopher Guttman-McCabe, Vice President, Regulatory Affairs, CTIA--The Wireless Association................................. 183 Prepared statement........................................... 185 Trey Forgety, Director, Government Affairs, National Emergency Number Association............................................. 189 Prepared statement........................................... 191 Submitted Material Letter of March 13, 2013, from the state of Ohio's Chief Information Officer to Mr. Latta............................... 207 Letter of March 13. 2013, from the National Governors Association to the Subcommittee, submitted by Ms. Eshoo.................... 208 Letter of March 13. 2013, from Testron Systems to the Subcommittee, submitted by Mr. Walden.......................... 210 OVERSIGHT OF FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK AUTHORITY (FIRSTNET) AND EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS ---------- THURSDAY, MARCH 14, 2013 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Communications and Technology, Committee on Energy and Commerce, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:32 a.m., in room 2123 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Greg Walden (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Walden, Latta, Terry, Blackburn, Scalise, Lance, Guthrie, Kinzinger, Long, Ellmers, Barton, Upton (ex officio), Eshoo, Matsui, Braley, Welch, Dingell, Pallone and Waxman (ex officio). Staff present: Ray Baum, Senior Policy Advisor/Director of Coalitions; Sean Bonyun, Communications Director; Matt Bravo, Professional Staff Member; Andy Duberstein, Deputy Press Secretary; Neil Fried, Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology; Debbee Hancock, Press Secretary; Nick Magallanes, Policy Coordinator, Commerce, Manufacturing and Trade; David Redl, Counsel, Telecom; Charlotte Savercool, Executive Assistant, Legislative Clerk; Lyn Walker, Coordinator, Admin/ Human Services; Tom Wilbur, Digital Media Advisor; Roger Sherman, Democratic Chief Counsel; Shawn Chang, Democratic Senior Counsel; Patrick Donovan, FCC Detailee; and Kara van Stralen, Democratic Special Assistant. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. GREG WALDEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON Mr. Walden. I would like to call to order the Subcommittee on Communications and Technology for our hearing on oversight of FirstNet and emergency communications. Good morning, everyone, and welcome, especially to our witnesses on both of our panels, as well as our colleagues and guests. In last year's Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act, Congress created the First Responder Network Authority. FirstNet is an independent entity within the NTIA tasked with implementing a nationwide interoperable public safety broadband network. That is no small task. On the first of today's two panels, we will hear from FirstNet, states, a former chief of the FCC Public Safety Bureau, and private sector representatives on what progress is being made and where we should go from here. The legislation as adopted was not my preferred approach for many of the reasons expressed in today's prepared testimony. I favored construction from the bottom up, not the top down, with certain minimum interoperability requirements and commercial providers running the network in partnership with the states. That approach is by no means guaranteed by the legislation as finally passed. But we must do our best to implement that model within the confines of the law if this endeavor is going to succeed. We owe it to the state and local first responders that risk their lives for ours, the men and women who are the literal boots on the ground. And we owe it to the taxpayers, who funded it up front with up to $7 billion in federal revenue, and who will fund it over the long haul through their state and local taxes. I am a firm believer that the work of Congress begins, not ends, when a bill is enacted into law. Even at this early stage, a recent forum of prospective participants highlighted concerns about how FirstNet is being administered and how the public safety broadband network will be realized. I look forward to exploring some of those concerns today. For example, will FirstNet meet the needs of both rural and urban parts of the country? Will it bring the needed innovation and efficiency of the commercial sector to public safety communications? Will FirstNet conduct open and transparent proceedings to ensure all potential stakeholders are heard? As today's witnesses can attest, funding FirstNet will also be an essential element of making the network a reality. I was encouraged to hear Senator Rockefeller say at this week's FCC oversight hearing that the agency should conduct the incentive auctions in a way that maximizes participation and revenue. I agree that this will best ensure our public safety objectives are met. We have learned time and again that in times of natural and national disaster, communication among our first responders is key. Ensuring communication lines are open to the public is equally important. With our second panel, we will examine the Emergency Alert System, Wireless Emergency Alerts, and 911 service. As former broadcasters, my wife and I fondly recall running our required weekly tests of the broadcast emergency alert system. However, despite its more than 60 years of existence in one form or another, the EAS was only recently tested on a national level. While more than 90 percent of the stations properly ran the test message, technical challenges prevented stations in my home state of Oregon and elsewhere from receiving the message. This could have been catastrophic in a real emergency and it must be resolved in short order. Broadcast alerts are a critical part of our emergency infrastructure, but emergency systems, like all communications media, have changed significantly over the last 20 years. In 1993 there were only 13 million cell phone subscribers in America. That was less than 5 percent of the U.S. population. Today, the broadcast emergency alert system is part of the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System, IPAWS, that incorporates broadcast, cable and satellite video programming distributors as well as more granularly targeted alerts to wireless devices. So I look forward to our witnesses giving us a better picture of the successes and challenges with the alerting systems. Finally, while getting timely emergency information to the public is critical to emergency response, getting information from the public is just as crucial. Sadly, emergencies occur every day in our homes, in our offices, in our cars and on the streets. This is the world of our 911 call centers. While no less devastating to those involved, these emergencies are often of a small scale, affecting just a few people. Every now and then, however, they occur on a large scale, taxing the resources of both the call centers and commercial providers. We cannot design the 911 system to cover every contingency but we should learn from our experiences to improve it whenever and however we can. We also need to discuss how we might incorporate more advanced technologies, which is why this committee incorporated Mr. Shimkus's and Ranking Member Eshoo's NextGen 911 Advancement Act in the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act. I look forward to hearing how this national asset is adapting to serve our needs in a broadband world. I would yield the last bit of my time to the vice chair of the committee, Mr. Latta. [The prepared statement of Mr. Walden follows:] Prepared statement of Hon. Greg Walden In last year's Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act, Congress created the First Responder Network Authority. FirstNet is an independent entity within the NTIA tasked with implementing a nationwide interoperable public safety broadband network. That's no small task. On the first of today's two panels, we will hear from FirstNet, states, a former chief of the FCC Public Safety Bureau, and private sector representatives on what progress is being made and where we should go from here. The legislation as adopted was not my preferred approach for many of the reasons expressed in today's prepared testimony. I favored construction from the bottom up, not the top down, with certain minimum interoperability requirements and commercial providers running the network in partnership with the states. That approach is by no means guaranteed by the legislation as finally passed. But we must do our best to implement that model within the confines of the law if this endeavor is going to succeed. We owe it to the state and local first responders that risk their lives for ours, the men and women who are the literal boots on the ground. And we owe it to the taxpayers, who funded it up front with up to $7 billion in federal revenue, and who will fund it over the long-haul through their state and local taxes. I am a firm believer that the work of Congress begins, not ends, when a bill is enacted into law. Even at this early stage, a recent forum of prospective participants highlighted concerns about how FirstNet is being administered and how the public safety broadband network will be realized. I look forward to exploring some of those concerns today. For example, will FirstNet meet the needs of both rural and urban parts of the country? Will it bring the needed innovation and efficiency of the commercial sector to public safety communications? Will FirstNet conduct open and transparent proceedings to ensure all potential stakeholders are heard? As today's witnesses can attest, funding FirstNet will also be an essential element of making the network a reality. I was encouraged to hear Senator Rockefeller say at this week's FCC oversight hearing that the agency should conduct the incentive auctions in a way that maximizes participation and revenue. I agree that this will best ensure our public safety objectives are met. We have learned time and again that in times of natural and national disaster communication among our first responders is key. Ensuring communication lines are open to the public is equally important. With our second panel, we will examine the Emergency Alert System, Wireless Emergency Alerts, and 9-1-1 service. As former broadcasters, my wife Mylene and I fondly recall running our required weekly tests of the broadcast emergency alert system. However, despite its more than 60 years of existence in one form or another, the EAS was only recently tested on a national level. While more than 90 percent of the stations properly ran the test message, technical challenges prevented stations in my home state of Oregon and elsewhere from receiving the message. This could have been catastrophic in a real emergency and must be resolved in short order. Broadcast alerts are a critical part of our emergency infrastructure, but emergency systems--like all communications media--have changed significantly over the last 20 years. In 1993 there were only 13 million cell phone subscribers in America. That was less than 5 percent of the population. Today, the broadcast emergency alert system is part of the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System-IPAWS- that incorporates broadcast, cable and satellite video programming distributors as well as more granularly targeted alerts to wireless devices. I look forward to our witnesses giving us a better picture of the successes and challenges with the alerting systems. Finally, while getting timely emergency information to the public is critical to emergency response, getting information from the public is just as crucial. Sadly, emergencies occur every day in our homes, in our offices, in our cars, and on the streets. This is the world of our 9-1-1 call centers. While no less devastating to those involved, these emergencies are often of a small scale, affecting just a few people. Every now and then, however, they occur on a large scale, taxing the resources of both the call centers and commercial providers. We cannot design the 9-1-1 system to cover every contingency but we should learn from our experiences to improve it where we can. We also need to discuss how we might incorporate more advanced technologies, which is why this committee incorporated Mr. Shimkus' and Ranking Member Eshoo's Next Generation 9-1-1 Advancement Act in the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act. I look forward to hearing how this national asset is adapting to serve our needs in a broadband world. # # # Mr. Latta. I appreciate the chairman for yielding and thank him very much and I also appreciate you holding the hearing today, and I thank our distinguished panel of witnesses for testifying today. Public safety and emergency communications are an extremely important topic, one that affects every single American. That is why it is imperative that FirstNet is successful. A nationwide interoperable public safety network is a massive undertaking and it is critically important that the communication system is done right by FirstNet for the sake of our economy and the safety of all Americans. I am concerned that the role of the states is being overlooked. I would like to submit for the record, Mr. Chairman, a letter from the state of Ohio's Chief Information Officer on concerns regarding FirstNet's funding, communication planning and representation. Mr. Walden. Without objection. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Latta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the hearing and the testimony from our witnesses and I look forward to a thoughtful and constructive discussion. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes the ranking member from California, Ms. Eshoo. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANNA G. ESHOO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to you, and thank you for holding this very important hearing today. Mr. Chairman, through our bipartisan work in the 112th Congress, we laid the groundwork for the first-ever interoperable nationwide public safety broadband network. Now, more than 11 years after our Nation was attacked, it is the First Responder Network Authority, or FirstNet, who has been tasked with the build-out and maintenance of a network that will transform the way our first responders communicate. To ensure that FirstNet remains on track, leverages the expertise of the communications sector, and does not repeat the mistakes that have plagued public safety communications for decades, I expect this will be the first of many oversight hearings because I think that is going to be important for us to do so, to keep everything on track, and as we do, all of the stakeholders will know how serious we are about. For today's hearing, I would like to offer several observations that I believe will guide the success of FirstNet and the transition to Next Generation 9-1-1. First, consistent with statute, FirstNet must ensure equipment used on the network is built to open, non-proprietary, commercially available standards. A $5,000 radio is simply unacceptable, particularly when far superior, off-the-shelf technology can be purchased for a fraction of the price. Second, FirstNet should leverage the expertise and innovative thinking found across Silicon Valley, my distinguished Congressional district. A modern, IP-based network in which first responders rely on Internet-enabled devices creates new opportunities for both device and application makers. Covia Labs, a Mountain View-based startup, is one example of the innovative thinking already underway. Third, the transition to Next Generation 9-1-1 will require the continued support of Congress, the FCC, NHTSA and NTIA. Last month, the FCC issued a detailed roadmap to Congress on how best to advance and deploy NG9-1-1 across our country. I am encouraged by the progress made to date and I believe our success will ensure that local 9-1-1 call centers can quickly and accurately deliver emergency information to our first responders. So I want to thank all of our witnesses today for being here and for your commitment to advancing our Nation's public safety communications. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous consent that a letter from the National Governors Association relative to our hearing today be placed in the record. Mr. Walden. Without objection. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Ms. Eshoo. Thank you. I yield back. Does anyone want to use--Congresswoman Matsui, I would be happy to yield time to you. Ms. Matsui. I thank the ranking member for yielding me time. Let me start by saying that FirstNet is here to stay and it is part of our responsibility to ensure it is efficient and well implemented. If not, we jeopardize the entire network and it is as simple as that. I believe transparent governance is paramount and critical to ensure America's first responders have an efficient and effective interoperable network. I also believe states should and will play a critical role during this process. While not perfect, I believe the law put in place a strong governance framework with a focus on public-private partnerships to ensure we achieve our primary goal of providing a nationwide interoperable broadband network for our Nation's first responders. Throughout my career, I have sat on a number of governance boards, and I truly understand the importance of their roles in providing clear leadership. Simply put, good governance is a linchpin of the public safety network that would determine success or failure. It must be done right from the outset. Thank you, and I want to thank the witnesses for being here, and I yield back my time to the ranking member to do with as she pleases. Would anyone like to use 35 seconds? I would be happy to yield. I yield back. Mr. Walden. I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Upton. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRED UPTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN Mr. Upton. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today's hearing is going to examine how we communicate in times of emergency. The first panel is going to focus on implementing provisions in our spectrum legislation to create a nationwide interoperable public safety network. That law could raise as much as $7 billion for first responders, help build out the communications system, and still clear as much as 120 megahertz of spectrum to meet growing demand for wireless broadband. But to do so, the FCC must refrain from excluding potential bidders and maximize the amount of spectrum that it auctions and the revenue it raises. We also have to ensure that state and local governments play an integral role in designing that network. The second panel is going to focus on how we communicate with our citizens and they with us when danger strikes. The emergency alert and 9-1-1 systems are pivotal links when the unfortunate happens, and I want to particularly welcome today my friend, Diane Kniowski, President and General Manager of WOOD TV, WOTV, and WXSP. These stations do an excellent job of keeping our communities in southwest Michigan informed both in times of emergency and during our day-to-day lives. I would yield to other members wishing time. Seeing none, I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Upton follows:] Prepared statement of Hon. Fred Upton Today's hearing will examine how we communicate in times of emergency. The first panel will focus on implementing provisions in our spectrum legislation to create a nationwide, interoperable public safety network. The law could raise as much as $7 billion for first responders, help build out the communications system, and still clear as much as 120 megahertz of spectrum to meet growing demand for wireless broadband. To do so, however, the FCC must refrain from excluding potential bidders and maximize the amount of spectrum it auctions and the revenue it raises. We must also ensure that state and local governments play an integral role in designing this network. The second panel will focus on how we communicate with our citizens and they with us when danger strikes. The emergency alert and 9-1-1 systems are pivotal links when the unfortunate happens. I want to welcome today my friend Diane Kniowski, President and General Manager of WOOD TV, WOTV, and WXSP. These stations do a tremendous job of keeping our communities in southwest Michigan informed both in times of emergency and during our day-to-day lives. # # # Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. We now recognize the former chairman of the full committee, the gentleman from California, Mr. Waxman. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY A. WAXMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Mr. Waxman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing, and welcome to all of our witnesses and especially Sam Ginn, Chairman of the FirstNet Board. Mr. Ginn has offered to spearhead a historic undertaking that is vital to our Nation. We appreciate his service and the service of all the FirstNet board members. Last year, Congress enacted the Public Safety and Spectrum Act, delivering on one of the last remaining recommendations from the 9/11 Commission to create a nationwide interoperable public safety broadband network for first responders. The Act was the result of bicameral, bipartisan negotiations that produced a strong and innovative law. Our job now is to work together to make the legislation a success. To deliver on the promise of the law, we will need the cooperation of partners in industry and public safety. The Act was designed to take advantage of existing commercial networks and economies of scale. Given the magnitude of this project, it is critical that FirstNet and its partners operate efficiently and innovate aggressively. There will be a substantial taxpayer investment in FirstNet. The law provides FirstNet with valuable spectrum and $7 billion to build the new public safety network. We need to ensure that these public funds go as far as possible, and I am pleased that most stakeholders seem to recognize this and are committed to this shared goal. We have profound respect and appreciation for our first responders, and it is their dedication and the searing experience of 9/11 that led to the creation of FirstNet. Now it is time for public safety to step up again and help make this promise a reality. This will require all parties to put aside old turf battles and collaborate in a way that puts the success of the national network first. On the second panel, we will learn more about the FCC's recent activities to investigate the reliability and resiliency of our Nation's communications networks. This is a critical issue. Climate change is supercharging storms. In the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy, power outages and floods disrupted many types of communications services, including wireless, television, telephone and Internet services. It is absolutely critical that we explore the impact of weather emergencies on communications reliability. It is fitting that we are discussing communications reliability at the same hearing during which we consider the construction of a public-safety-grade broadband network for first responders. One question I hope we can answer is whether ``public safety grade'' will become the new normal in a world in which natural disasters are more frequent. Again, I want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing today and for your commitment to advancing our Nation's public safety communications. I thank the chairman for scheduling this important hearing. I look forward to the testimony. There is another hearing going on at the same time, so I will be back and forth. It in no way indicates a lack of interest on my part. If I don't get to hear your testimony, I will certainly get a chance to review it, and I appreciate everybody's participation in this hearing. Yield back my time. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. And now we are ready to hear from our witnesses. We welcome you all today. On panel one, to discuss the FirstNet issues and the interoperable public safety broadband network build-out, we have the Hon. Sam Ginn, who is Chairman of the First Responder Network Authority; Chris McIntosh, statewide Interoperability Coordinator for Virginia; Ray Lehr, Director of statewide Communications Interoperability Coordinator from Maryland; Admiral James A. Barnett, Jr., Rear Admiral, United states Navy, retired, former Chief, Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, Partner and Co-Chair, Telecommunications Group, Venable LLP--that takes 20 seconds of your time; Declan Ganley, Chairman and CEO, Rivada Networks. We thank all of you for being here and giving us the great value of your testimony and counsel. Mr. Ginn, we are going to open with you. It is good to see you again, and I look forward to your testimony, and thank you. Go ahead. STATEMENTS OF SAMUEL GINN, CHAIRMAN, FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK AUTHORITY; CHRISTOPHER MCINTOSH, STATEWIDE INTEROPERABILITY COORDINATOR, VIRGINIA; RAY LEHR, DIRECTOR, STATEWIDE COMMUNICATIONS INTEROPERABILITY COORDINATOR, MARYLAND; ADM. JAMES A. BARNETT, JR., REAR ADMIRAL U.S. NAVY (RET.), FORMER CHIEF, PUBLIC SAFETY AND HOMELAND SECURITY BUREAU, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION, PARTNER AND CO-CHAIR, TELECOMMUNICATIONS GROUP, VENABLE LLP; AND DECLAN GANLEY, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, RIVADA NETWORKS STATEMENT OF SAMUEL GINN Mr. Ginn. Thank you, Chairman Walden and Ranking Member Eshoo. Thank you for the invitation, and I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to give you a status of where we are at FirstNet. But first I think we have all watched 9/11, Katrina, and more recently Sandy, and even if you have sat in a local operation dispatch center for the police department, you understand how important this legislation has been, and just as a citizen of this country, I want to thank you, and I want to thank Congress for this law because it was an incredible piece of legislation and I think if we can execute on our end, we will reduce cost, we will improve operations and we will save lives. So as Chairman of FirstNet, I thank you. Now, these are the early days of FirstNet, and I think the question I would ask myself is, how are you doing, and I will try to answer that question in just a few minutes. I think the first thing you have to understand is, this is probably the largest telecom project in our history. We will be building the equivalent of a commercial network over the next few years with very interesting requirements. We expect to cover every square meter of land. We expect to penetrate Manhattan skyscrapers. We expect to implement a new technology, LTE. We expect to engineer a network that is multi-carrier based, and we expect to put in this network public sector features that help them do their job better. So I think the point of saying this is, this is going to be a massive, complex and challenging mission, and I just think we have to understand that as we move into implementation. The second thing that I think is important is what kind of leadership is gathering around this mission, and I would like to talk a bit about the board of directors, and first of all, technical competence is so important. I mean, when you get right down to it, this is a massive technical effort, and we have recruited board members with technical wireless backgrounds. They have engineered wireless systems all across the United states. They have engineered systems in Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Japan, India and South Korea. So I think you could be assured that what we have recruited on the board is a group of people who know how to engineer wireless networks, and I am confident myself that we have that technical competence. The other thing I think is important about the board is the public safety representation. We have members on our board from police, fire, sheriff and EMS, and not only from those institutions but these people happen to be leaders in their disciplines. They are quite active and they make wonderful contributions. Also on the board, we have members with backgrounds in state government and cities, many years of experience. They know the issues that those entities face on a day-to-day basis. And I think the most important thing that I can report to you today is this board is coming together. It is beginning to operate as a team, and I think that is a first, wonderful implication of getting this project off on the right foot. The second thing that I think needs to be said is, this is a startup. We are starting from a blank sheet of paper. We have no milestones to measure our performance. We have no employees to start with. We have no budget. We have no financial controls. We have no audit function. We have no history and no culture. And so institutions need to put all of these things in place, and we have been busy for the last few months putting these requirements in place. And I would say that things are coming together. Next week we will announce the appointment of a general manager, and I would guess that the senior manager of the team will be in place very quickly, so the report is, we are progressing to a more normal operation, which is, we can manage and measure. Now, the other thing is that the world doesn't stop even though you have only a board and no employees, and so we have had to deal with a number of emerging issues. We have obviously had to deal with the conceptualization of the network itself, and let me just be a little more specific here. We are going to implement an LTE system. The LTE system is a commercial system, and it has to be modified for public safety requirements. We are in the process of doing that. If you don't do that, if you don't embed public safety needs into the standards, the standards get published and manufacturers don't deliver the kind of capabilities that public safety needs. So we have been heavily involved in the standards process making sure that public safety issues are addressed. We have been conceptualizing multi-carrier networks, and there are not many of these world, and there is a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of proof of concept and do multiple-carrier networks really work and how do they work best. So we have taken directors who have taken full-time jobs, one on technology, to work on these issues. We have a full-time director of outreach because you discover very quickly that the public safety community and other communities, for that matter, have points of view and they demand to be understood, and we understand that because customer expectations are clearly the way to solve these issues. Mr. Chairman, I will stop there and be willing to take your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Ginn follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.002 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.003 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.007 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.010 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.096 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.097 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.098 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.099 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.100 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.101 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.102 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.103 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.104 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.105 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.106 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.107 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.108 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.109 Mr. Walden. Thank you, sir. We will now turn to Mr. McIntosh. We are pleased that you are here to give us from an on-ground perspective as the statewide Interoperability Coordinator for Virginia, and please pull that mike up close and you have got your 5 minutes. Thank you. STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER MCINTOSH Mr. McIntosh. Thank you, Chairman Walden, Ranking Member Eshoo, distinguished members of the committee. Communications is the one constant that forms the foundation for all other public safety disciplines. It is the bedrock of every response plan, the core of every procedure. In the past 11 years, billions of dollars have been spent across the Nation on communications programs. New radio systems have been fielded, interoperability has been greatly improved, and the ability of our first responders to communicate is better than ever. Unfortunately, funding levels have fallen precipitously. Virginia has seen consecutive 50 percent cuts in federally funded state homeland security grant programs, and historically, almost 30 percent of that funding has gone to support and maintain communications. In 2011 alone, the Commonwealth received $43 million in requests from localities for communications grant funding and was only able to award $2 million. Virginia has also recently seen the loss of funding of two Urban Area Security Initiatives resulting in the reduction of tens of millions of dollars in annual funding. Much of that went to communications program as well. We stand on the verge of a revolution in emergency communications capabilities. However, traditional land mobile radio systems are beginning to become integrated with Voice over Internet Protocol technologies. By fusing voice communications with Internet technologies, new possibilities are becoming a reality. Virginia operates one of the largest public safety Voice over IP networks in the Nation. Soon any laptop, tablet or smartphone in the hands of a Virginia public safety professional will become a radio capable of communicating with any PSAP in the state or any responder on a radio connected to it and fusing that with crisis management video and geospatial and system-based information to allow previously unheard-of levels of situational awareness. All of these capabilities rely on reliable connectivity, and public safety broadband offers a solution that addresses many of the connectivity issues faced by public safety. Now public safety professionals will have the opportunity to have unfettered access to wireless communications in order to improve their ability to respond to incidents safely and effectively. The challenge lies in making all this a reality in the current fiscal environment. Public safety communications budgets, like other budgets, are heavily encumbered with existing core funding needs and have little flexibility to fund new programs or new capabilities. Public safety broadband will not replace existing or planned land mobile radio systems in the near future. LMR has proven its reliability, survivability and usability many times over. Cellular technologies, on the other hand, have proven to be susceptible to widespread failure during natural disasters. Cellular infrastructure density results in a dependence on reliable power supplies and redundant backhaul connectivity that is a major vulnerability. Even after mitigations to these issues are designed into the network, it will be some time before we can adequately evaluate their effectiveness. The cost of public safety broadband will be in addition to current land mobile radio costs currently paid by state and local governments. The time horizon for replacing LMR cost with public safety broadband cannot be determined. The FirstNet Board has been on the record to state that the network will cover every square meter of the United states. They must do this with a network that greatly exceeds the design specifications and redundancies of commercial networks but with a fraction of the resources the private sector has currently expended in a network that only covers two-thirds of the country. The states are understandably nervous that the combination of increased costs and insufficient funding will result in the uncovered costs being passed on to state and local governments, further diminishing funding for other core first responder necessities. In light of this, states need the ability to define the level of partnership that they will engage in with FirstNet. states should be allowed to negotiate partnerships on their own with the private sector that are designed to generate revenue that can be applied to the network. Many of these potential partners are local or intrastate in nature, making the state-local team the appropriate governing structure for this arrangement as opposed to FirstNet. FirstNet cannot be expected to understand each state's unique circumstances and needs. It is through a partnership between states and localities and the FirstNet Board that this program will be successful. In addition, adding a current state official to the FirstNet Board would be very helpful to this endeavor. The Act requires that each state or territory certify that they have designated a single officer or governmental body to coordinate, serving as a portal through which FirstNet will conduct its consultation with the state. Many states, including Virginia, have established this communications channel and are waiting for FirstNet to reciprocate. In the inaugural FirstNet Board meeting, a notional architecture for the network was presented, and we are told that a more refined version will be presented in April. This network is being designed before the consultation mentioned before has been done. Public safety broadband is a far-reaching and mission- critical program. To succeed, it requires direct communication and coordination between FirstNet and the states. This will ensure that requirements are captured and adequate mechanisms are developed that permit the network as operations and maintenance and the planning, training and exercising and support are adequately and reliably funded. Establishing a vehicle for the designee of each state or territory to work directly with FirstNet within the FirstNet governing structure would vastly improve the collaboration between FirstNet and the states and territories. The partnership between the states and FirstNet must be direct, open, transparent and ongoing. With that, I stand by for your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. McIntosh follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.021 Mr. Walden. Thank you very much. I appreciate your testimony. Now we will hear from Ray Lehr, who is the Director of statewide Communications Interoperability Coordinator for the state of Maryland. We welcome you today and look forward to your comments, sir. STATEMENT OF RAY LEHR Mr. Lehr. Thank you, Chairman Walden, Ranking Member Eshoo. Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I have provided written remarks, which I believe you have available to you. Having previewed the testimony of the other panelists, and just heard my good friend Chris give his testimony, I am delighted to see we are mostly in agreement on the key elements. In an effort to save time, I am going to summarize my comments. Let me start by formally thanking this committee, the entire Congress and the President for the passage of the legislation. This is a historic opportunity for public safety. A robust, reliable and secure broadband network will not only save citizens' lives, it will save first responders' lives on a daily basis. Now that FirstNet has begun, it is in the best interest of every state to work with FirstNet to ensure that all of the requirements are met. How can we make that happen? I can tell you from personal experience in Maryland building a statewide radio system, you have to go to the source, the actual users of the system. We were designing coverage for our system and we found a half-mile by half-mile area that didn't have radio coverage. Looking at it on the map, it was heavily wooded, only had a single road so it looked like it would be minimal impact. But when we spoke to the local emergency managers, we found out this area sees a high level of public safety activity. Because of its isolation, criminals have used it as a dumping ground for stolen vehicles, and even a body. There have been field fires in the summer and traffic accidents on the windy single- lane road. This area needs coverage for police, fire and EMS. Even some federal task forces are now operating in the area. We never would have known this without the local input that we got during the design. This is why FirstNet needs to be involved with end users in the design and development of the broadband network. I can assure you, we want to help. I urge FirstNet to build on the foundations that already exist in states, not only the network infrastructure but also the working groups that have been solving communication problems for first responders over the last decade. I believe the nationwide public safety broadband network has a much greater chance of success if all states opt in. That would make interoperability much easier and also take advantage of the seamless design. Also, the upgrades would occur in unison, ensuring continuity of operation. To enable governors to make an informed opt-in decision, the states will need information on five key components. Number one is the network design security redundancy and reliability. Public safety needs a robust network and broadband devices that can operate during the worst conditions imaginable, because that is when our public safety folks are in the field. Number two: state assets that can be leveraged, towers, fiber optics, microwave, network operation centers. By using state assets which are built to higher standards than commercial networks, we increase reliability, and states should realize some cost offsets by virtue of their infrastructure investments in the nationwide network. Number three is coverage, both in building and rural. As stated earlier, only the state and local public safety leaders can speak to their needs. The early input will ensure the network meets the expectations of each community. Number four, network priorities. Long-term evolution, or LTE, as it is known, is a standard that allows for a wide range of priorities for network access under different types of emergencies. Often these priorities will be dynamic as the event evolves so local control is absolutely essential. And number five is the cost to operate and maintain. This is of great concern to states because they will be asked to pay an unknown amount to use and maintain the network. The costs need to be no greater than what they are paying for cellular service today. While it is possible that FirstNet could negotiate a better deal with national carriers, there are other potential partners in the region and at the local level. states need the ability to work with local business partnerships in order to help raise revenue where possible. In closing, I would like to express our excitement about this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. It is going to ultimately save lives, protect people and property, and enhance our performance during times of national crisis as well as every day. With that, I thank you again and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lehr follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.023 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.025 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.026 Mr. Walden. Mr. Lehr, thank you for your testimony. It is most insightful. We will now go to James A. Barnett, Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy, retired, former Chief of Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, and now a Partner and Co-Chair at Telecommunications Group, Venable LLP. So we welcome you with the broad range of background you bring and the experience, and we appreciate the report you have provided for each of us, and its at times colorful analogies. Admiral Barnett, thank you for being here. We look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF JAMES A. BARNETT, JR. Admiral Barnett. Thank you, Chairman Walden, Ranking Member Eshoo and distinguished members of the subcommittee and for the opportunity to talk about FirstNet's challenges and road to success. As you mentioned, I used to be the Senior Vice President of the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies, which is an independent, nonpartisan science and technology policy think tank in the area, and as such, I was pleased to serve as the Principal Investigator for a study titled ``What Should FirstNet Do First'', which as the chairman mentioned is there and offered for the record. FirstNet has many advantages and opportunities: a highly experienced governing board, 24 megahertz of great spectrum, and initial funding of $2 billion. But the challenges that FirstNet faces are daunting, as Chairman Ginn mentioned. The full funding of $7 billion is not enough for a nationwide network, and no model or precedent exists for establishing this network. Just like the failed D block auction, there are existential risks, and success is not assured. But everybody involved wants FirstNet to succeed, and in that spirit I would offer four recommendations. The first is to embrace the states, the second is, one size does not fit all, the third is to develop a cost model, and the fourth is to contract for expertise now. First, FirstNet must embrace the states in a way that it has not previously. Before the FirstNet board members were seated, there was a confusion that developed that public safety is both the user and the customer, as it has been in the past. The states, which may be huge stakeholders and customers for FirstNet, perceive that they have been ignored and excluded from the table. So for a chronically underfunded and undercapitalized network, alienating your customers at the outset is a huge problem. FirstNet can forestall the active consideration by some states to opt out statutorily if it opens its process. As I suggested in the FirstNet report, Chairman Ginn and the FirstNet board have reached out to the National Governors Association, to the governors, the state CIOs, the states' BTOP recipients, and this effort should be continued and expanded to fully incorporate governors and state CIOs into the process with direct input to the board and ultimately representation on the board. FirstNet must be open to early deployers, public-private partnerships, innovative arrangements from the state to attract private capital, public infrastructure and more users into the network. The talk about signing over state assets to FirstNet must give way to discussions about how FirstNet will serve the states' needs and how FirstNet can contractually use state infrastructure. Increased information sharing and transparency with the states will help also. To achieve Congress's central goal, FirstNet should adopt a principle of national interoperability with local control, and one size will not fit all. Some states and localities may wish to combine into regions for the network. Some states may wish to form public-private partnerships with carriers or public utilities. Some may be able to obtain essential network funding if they are allowed to proceed now with their deployment plans. FirstNet must retain the technical capability to administer the national network and ensure that it will be interoperable, but if it has that capability by contracting with experts, then the network can go faster and can achieve early wins. To attract funding into the network, FirstNet should consider what might be called a franchise operation under its control. The decision to reopen the question of whether BTOP recipients may proceed is a very encouraging development and is consistent with the concept that one size does not fit all and that a network of networks may be the key to success. FirstNet should develop a cost model and a financial analysis that will explain to state customers, public safety users and other stakeholders such as carriers and equipment providers what this network will cost to build and use. This is critically important. To move quickly and expertly, FirstNet should be allowed to contract with its cost model and financial analysis, and until this is developed, anyone making plans for use of the network would be speculating on what the services would cost and be. A cost model and plan would be a very high priority and must precede decisions that would limit where the model and plan might lead. FirstNet needs more expertise and human resources right away. The FirstNet board members are an extraordinarily qualified and a very talented and experienced group but they are a board and they are not a full-time staff. They need a full-time staff. Some employees are being obtained but FirstNet needs access to their expertise now quickly, and to help them analyze and plan and coordinate and manage, and the fastest and best way is to contract for that expertise and to use government employees to oversee those contracts. So thank you for this opportunity to talk to you about how FirstNet can be successful. 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Thank you, Admiral. We appreciate your testimony and the report. We will go now to our final witness on this panel, the Chairman and CEO of Rivada Networks, Declan Ganley. Mr. Ganley, we are delighted you are here this morning and we look forward to your testimony, sir. STATEMENT OF DECLAN GANLEY Mr. Ganley. Good morning, Chairman Walden and Ranking Member Eshoo. Thank you for your invitation this morning. My wife's family business was headquartered in World Trade Center Two, and 9/11 was a very impactful event for my family, and I had rolled out a broadband across several countries in Europe. I do not envy Chairman Ginn the task that he faces in getting this thing rolled out here, but 9/11 brought home to us in a very personal way the issues that the 9/11 Commission report covered so well highlighted, of course, the establishment, the passing of this legislation and the establishment of FirstNet goes a long way to achieving the objectives of the 9/11 Commission report. I want to say right at the outset, I see no other way to get it done other than this in terms of what FirstNet has been tasked with doing, getting the job done and getting it done as expeditiously as possible, and the board that has been put together certainly contains the competence, the ability, the public safety expertise to accomplish many of those goals. During Hurricane Katrina, Rivada Networks, my company, deployed emergency cellular base stations in Louisiana with satellite backup, and while able to provide emergency communications to first responders, we found that when usage capacity was at a maximum, we were unable to provide prioritized access to those who needed it. So there were times when the system would be at maximum capacity, a Coast Guard admiral would key up, try to get on and would have to wait to be able to get on. And as a result of that experience, Rivada spent a number of years developing tiered priority access--we call it TPA-- allowing us to allocate access to bandwidth based on prioritization of the end user, and having developed tiered priority access, we realized that if we could tier priority access at a local level, we could do it on any scale, allowing bandwidth to be commoditized and allocated to users based on real-time valuation, dynamic allocation of that bandwidth and of access to that bandwidth. TPA allows public safety control over its own permanent, dedicated network--it is their network--granting full and absolute priority when needed through a throttling mechanism while making the surface bandwidth dynamically available to the wholesale commercial users during the significant periods of fallow time when the bandwidth is not being used by emergency responders. This dynamic-spectrum arbitrage revenue-generating capability can allow private capital sufficient security to construct these networks for cities and states and in a great many of these cities and states will provide surplus funding, which could be used to help FirstNet and fund the FirstNet mission. In our view, FirstNet has the best opportunity to achieve a nationwide public safety network that is fully interoperable, and while states opting out of the FirstNet model is permitted by the legislation, it is, in our opinion, neither optimal nor necessary. The best path to success for states and cities is under the FirstNet umbrella. The ability to provide a dedicated network that guarantees absolute prioritization for public safety while eliminating the burden to the taxpayer and generating surplus revenue to fund the maintenance, expansion and improvement of the network is obviously compelling. Partnering with private capital, public safety gains a state- of-the-art network built to public safety standards and a new stream of revenue that eases and in cases may even eliminate this burden on the America taxpayer. And so these core goals, the highest quality of public safety network built to public safety standards, flexibility to allow these networks to start getting built out in as expeditious a manner as possible, and a positive revenue outcome are unlikely to be achieved in a more efficient way than that type of approach. So in essence, the good news is, because this spectrum that this legislation allocated is prime real estate, it is very valuable, public safety can own and control it themselves, but by allowing cities, states, FirstNet to be able to allow dynamic access to that spectrum, you have a source here to generate revenue that under the legislation can offset and maybe even eliminate the burden to the U.S. taxpayer of building these networks. That has got to be good news for the American taxpayer, and for public safety. [The prepared statement of Mr. Ganley follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.034 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.035 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.037 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.038 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.042 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.044 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.045 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.046 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.047 Mr. Walden. Mr. Ganley, thank you very much for your testimony. Thanks to all of you on the panel. We will now go into the next phase of our hearing, which is the question-and- answer part. I want to ask Mr. McIntosh and Mr. Lehr representing the two states, well, the Commonwealth of Virginia and the state of Maryland--I will try to get that right--in the governors' letter to us, they point out that they remain disappointed states were not better represented on the FirstNet board. So what is really going on there? Mr. McIntosh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As was alluded to by all the members up here, the partnership--one thing we have learned through interoperable communications is partnership begins with participation. Mr. Walden. Right. Mr. McIntosh. And the fact that there is not a current state official on the FirstNet board---- Mr. Walden. But there is supposed to be somebody by statute on the board representing the state interest, right? Mr. McIntosh. The one member that I am aware of that is there to fulfill that requirement is not a current state official. Mr. Walden. How does that happen? Mr. McIntosh. I don't know. Mr. Walden. Mr. Lehr, do you care to comment on that point? Who made the appointments? Mr. Lehr. Chris is absolutely correct. The current member is a former CIO Of two states, I think California and Michigan, but not currently representing or doesn't hold an active role in the state. Also, Mr. Chairman, I will point out that when the National Governors Association met two weekends ago in Washington, the Wyoming Governor, Governor Mead, also made a pitch that not only should the NGA be represented but perhaps a governor himself or herself should be the representative on the FirstNet board. Mr. Walden. Because I assume--I won't put words in Admiral Barnett's mouth but he was an admiral and he was at the FCC and then he was off at a think tank and now doing whatever it is you do, you don't get to speak for the Navy now, right? Admiral Barnett. No, sir, I do not. Mr. Walden. And so why would we have a federal employee speaking for the states? Mr. Ginn, how did that happen? Mr. Ginn. Mr. Chairman, I was not privy to the appointment of the board. Mr. Walden. Who makes the appointments to the board? Mr. Ginn. The Secretary of Commerce. Mr. Walden. All right. So we will take up that matter with the Secretary of Commerce then. Mr. Ginn. But just a comment---- Mr. Walden. Are you comfortable with that situation? Mr. Ginn. Well, I would say this. Diversity is really important, but you reach a point where knowledge and competence is just as important. Mr. Walden. So are you saying that the states don't have anybody that would be knowledgeable or competent enough to represent---- Mr. Ginn. No, I am just saying that the current appointee is an outstanding member of the board. Mr. Walden. Well, I don't dispute that. It is just that we wanted somebody that actually was from a state. I guess we should have been more clear in the statute, but somebody representing the states' interests we thought would mean somebody from a state, not from the federal bureaucracy. Mr. Ginn. I guess that got interpreted as since she had been a CIO for both California and Michigan, that she met the requirement. Mr. Walden. Well, it feels like an insider deal to me in terms of federal government pretending to represent somebody it is not, and that is not any aspersion on the individual. I am just saying that it seems to me it would be better if actually the governors had that say in making a recommendation. I realize you don't make that appointment but, hey, you're the only one we have before us today. And you and I have talked on a number of occasions, Mr. Ginn, starting at the end of last year about some of the urgent, specific problems you felt needed to be rectified through legislation, and I know in your testimony you said you wanted to work with Congress to explore obvious and reasonable measures. This is your opportunity to make those obvious measures known to us and to the public. Can you be real specific about the issues you are encountering and what it is you think needs to be changed statutorily? Mr. Ginn. Well, I think the way to start this is to say that someone coming from a commercial enterprise and faced with the acquisition and procurement rules and government, you see that potentially they can increase the costs or extend the time that we can build this network, and what I would suggest is that we work together looking at those procedures and give us the freedom to really execute this network more efficiently than we otherwise could. So that is the point I made in my testimony. Mr. Walden. Do you have specific recommendations for us? Because when we talked at the end of the year, I was under the impression that you had some or were at least developing some, because there was---- Mr. Ginn. Well, we have developed some. We have actually submitted some recommendations to your staff and the staff at the Senate, and what we would like to do is take the time to sit down with you and discuss those. We are not trying to move away from what is competitive and open, and all the requirements that I know that you would insist on and I would insist on, but all I am saying is, government rules in a complex project like this are not necessarily geared to---- Mr. Walden. Well, that is why I was hoping in the context of this hearing, we would get more of that out on the table. My time is now expired so I will recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Eshoo. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to each of the witnesses. You have been absolutely terrific, and I thank you for what you are doing. What I really have drawn out of this and I appreciate is the wonderful spirit that is at the table, and there are obviously some sticky wickets that we have to work out. This is the first time in the history of our Nation that we are taking this on, and each one of you mentioned that in some way, shape or form, but the spirit in which you have approached this, I really appreciate and I think that that remains with us as we work our way through all of this. Let me start with Mr. Ginn. Thank you for being the first heading up FirstNet. Congratulations to you. The chairman just mentioned your meeting with him. We met in my Palo Alto office, my district office, on the 21st of February, and you also met with Mr. Waxman to go through the concerns that you have. I think the sooner you get these issues to us, the specifics of them, that we can start to work on them because the subcommittee wants all of this to work just the way you do, and you know that I was concerned that what you were sharing with me would ensnare the work and really throw sand in the gears relative to ensuring that we have a nationwide interoperable public safety network. So the sooner you get this to us, I think the better off we are going to be. What I would like to ask is, what steps is FirstNet taking to achieve economies of scale in device costs? I have been concerned about that all along, and if you could just answer that as quickly as possible because I have three other questions I would like to ask. Mr. Ginn. OK. Well, good. Well, one of the advantages of a national architecture is, you take advantage of scale, and with scale, you get reduced cost, and specifically with terminals, I think what is going to come out of this program is a completely engineered terminal for first responders, and it is going to be multichannel, it is going to have special features built into it. It will be positioned to service police and fire and emergency medical. And when you order in volumes, you can drive down the costs. Ms. Eshoo. Now, have you considered integrating adjacent spectrum bands used by commercial wireless providers into 4G LTE-based public safety devices as a way to drive down cost? Mr. Ginn. Absolutely. Ms. Eshoo. Good, good. And given the sensitive nature of data that will travel across the nationwide networks, what steps is FirstNet considering to ensure that security is built into the network from day one? Mr. Ginn. It is a really important issue. Cybersecurity has got to be a part of the system. Ms. Eshoo. Good. Mr. Ginn. We are going to rely on DHS and Department of Defense, who have some real experts in this arena, to help us put that plan in place. Ms. Eshoo. Is it too early, or has the FirstNet board received threat and vulnerability briefings from agencies such as DHS or NSA? Mr. Ginn. Well, what we---- Ms. Eshoo. It might be too early for that. I don't know. Mr. Ginn. Let me tell you where we are. Ms. Eshoo. Quickly, because I have 59 seconds left. Mr. Ginn. From a nationwide point of view, from our point of view, a number of things have to be in place: interoperability, which means that these systems not only have to communicate between local police and fire but they have to be able to communicate across states, number one. You have to have a nationwide security system. You have to have reliability standards that are nationwide, and because we anticipate an application engine for the entire network. That needs to be engineered on a national basis. So we are in the process of establishing these. When we establish them, we are open to states to do whatever they want, and just let me say here---- Ms. Eshoo. Well, we are just about out of time. Maybe you can respond in writing. If I might, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate what was given to us and the work that was done by the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies, but as I opened it this morning, I looked at page 8. I am struck by something, and again, I appreciate all the work that has gone into this, and I will read the entirety of the report. There were women involved in this, women Members of Congress, to produce this legislation, namely Kay Bailey Hutchinson in the Senate. She contributed mightily from the very beginning on this issue. You are looking at someone that worked very hard to keep this bipartisan and to produce a great product. So, looking at this, it seems as if it is a very old Congress that doesn't have any women and women involved in it, and I don't think that is the message that you intended to send out, but I was struck by it and I wanted to raise it, and it is National Women's History Month too. So thank you for our service to our country. We are in service to our country as well. Mr. Walden. May I take a point of personal privilege? Ms. Eshoo. Certainly, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walden. You just referred to a very old Congress, and I see my picture is one of those. Ms. Eshoo. No, you deserve to be there. You are the chairman of the committee. Mr. Walden. But it is the old part I was---- Ms. Eshoo. No, no, no, no. Mr. Walden. This is now an age discrimination issue I am going to take up with you at a later date. Ms. Eshoo. No, no, no. You know what I am referring to, Congresses of yesteryear. Mr. Walden. And you were terrifically involved in this whole process, and you and I and our staffs spent many, many hours involved, and we couldn't have done it without your leadership and help. We will now turn to the vice chairman of the subcommittee, Mr. Latta. Mr. Latta. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for yielding, and if I may say, sometimes it is not the age, it is sometimes the mileage. Mr. Walden. I take a personal---- Mr. Latta. I appreciate you for yielding. Back when I was in the Ohio General Assembly in the 1990s, Ohio was in the development of the state's land mobile radio system, what we call the Multi-Agency Radio Communications System, or MARCS for short. And you fast forward to today and MARCS is currently providing a critical mission voice and data for Ohio's public safety and first responders. The system is currently going through a $90 million upgrade and is actively pursuing local government and the adoption is steadily increasingly. Now with the establishment of FirstNet last year, the folks back in Ohio were concerned that the FirstNet board has already designed a system without that state input, and if I could, and following on with Chairman Walden talked about a little bit earlier, Mr. Ginn, if I could ask this first question to you. In your testimony, you are very encouraging to the committee in that you appear to recognize the need for state and local input into FirstNet's decisions. You have also indicated your intention to maintain local control and management of the network. And again, as stated by the chairman, Ohio and other states have raised concerns about their inclusion in the network design and the build process and about the need for local control and about the financial impact, and on page 4 of your testimony, you do state that it must be affordable to the user and states' participation in FirstNet. I also hear you say that it is your intent to reach out to the states, but given that this has not happened to a significant degree some 6 months into the process, can you assure us and the states when this is going to start happening, that the states are going to be involved in these decisions that are happening, and especially the governors because I know in Ohio, they are very, very concerned about what is happening, and so if I could just pose that first question to you as to some kind of a timetable. Mr. Ginn. Well, yes. I think first of all, there is a lot of outreach already taking place. Many of us have attended many forums, communicated about FirstNet and its goals and objectives, and there is an enormous outreach effort in place today. Now, I think you need to understand that what we anticipate is a national architecture with local control and operations, OK? And that is the way I think this network has to operate, and if you take a look at Adams County, Colorado, I am fascinated by what happened there in the BTOP arena. Here you had local public safety, you had local political structure. They got together. They dedicated buildings and dark fiber and all kinds of capabilities to that system and built it at a very, very inexpensive cost. So once we get the national architecture in place, we are quite open to states and cities constructing their own system so long as they follow the national standards around interoperability, cybersecurity and reliability. Mr. Latta. And again, it is getting that information to the states, because again, there is very much of a concern that they are not involved in the process. And if I can shift real quick to Mr. McIntosh, if I can ask you this. On page 4 of your testimony, you cite concerns regarding the costs associated with public safety broadband network and that resonates with me because I have heard those same concerns again from your counterpart in the state of Ohio, and I can tell you, and I am not sure how it is in Virginia, but I have a lot of volunteer departments out there, and I try to hit as many of them and support the pancake breakfasts and the fish fries and the chicken barbecues that they have just to raise funds for those departments. And have you seen any evidence of a business or cost recovery model evident yet in FirstNet planning? Mr. McIntosh. Not from FirstNet, no, sir. The only--we have been approached by the private sector on some business and cost recovery models, some of which are intriguing, but as far as direct communications from FirstNet, no, we have not gotten anything. Mr. Latta. Mr. Lehr, may I ask you that same question? Mr. Lehr. Congressman Latta, let me first of all let you know in front of me I have an email from Darryl Anderson from the state of Ohio. As soon as he heard that I was going to be testifying today, boom, the email lit up and, make sure you tell them that Ohio is in the same boat, we need to get some more information. He was very complimentary of your support for them with their Ohio MARCS system. I can tell you that the public safety community, we are the ultimate, I hate to use the term ``old boy network,'' after especially the admiral got nailed for that, but when we are building new 700 voice systems in the state of Maryland, so the first thing I did was call up Ohio, and your CIO and Darryl got on the phone with our CIO and myself and gave us the benefit of lessons learned, what they did, so the public safety community is used to having those kind of forums and exchanging information. I don't think Verizon calls up AT&T when they are going to deploy their 4G network and says, tell us how you did it. So that is the kind of information we are hoping FirstNet is going to tap into. Mr. Latta. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired and I yield back. Mr. Walden. The chairman recognizes the former chairman of the committee, Mr. Dingell, for 5 minutes. Mr. Dingell. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your courtesy. I first want to welcome Ms. Diane Kniowski, who is General Manager of several broadcast stations in western Michigan. I want to thank her for the work she and her stations do to provide viewers with excellent service and emergency information. Now, I want to also welcome Mr. Ginn and the rest of our panel members. The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act requires FirstNet to take all actions necessary to consult with, amongst others, federal, state, tribal, local public safety entities in building and operating FirstNet. Now, Mr. Ginn, these questions will be yes or no. Now, will FirstNet establish long-term relationships with state, regional, tribal and local public safety entities to ensure their input receives full consideration in FirstNet's proposed architecture as well as in its ongoing operations? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Mr. Ginn, again, is the preliminary technical and engineering work initiated by FirstNet based on known public safety requirements? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Now, Mr. Ginn, does such work represent a foundation upon which outcomes of your consultations with regional, state, local, tribal and public safety entities will be based? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Now, Mr. Ginn, in other words, this preliminary design work is just that and not final? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. It is not final. Mr. Dingell. Thank you. Mr. Ginn, further, will the network allow for local customization to meet unique local operational requirements? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. And I want to apologize to you. I hate to do this to witnesses but it helps us get a lot on the record. Mr. Ginn, will FirstNet consult with a variety of equipment manufacturers and vendors as it considers operations for network architectures, technologies and deployment options? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Mr. Ginn, many states like my state of Michigan find themselves presently in serious financial straits. I think it is extremely important that FirstNet work with the states to make the operation and the maintenance of the public safety network affordable for all. Do you commit to doing so in a meaningful fashion? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Now, I would like to return to the issue of FirstNet's architecture. I think it is very important that FirstNet serve the reliability, security and functional needs of public safety around the country. Recognizing there are no absolute guarantees when it comes to network resiliency, I would like to ask you the following questions. Again, Mr. Ginn, in regions of this country that experience severe weather such as hurricanes, will FirstNet be designed to ensure that towers can withstand these forces? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. I assume you will also be doing that with regard to backup power facilities. Is that correct? Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. And also with regard to things like earthquakes and other disasters. Am I correct? Mr. Ginn. Would you repeat that, sir? Mr. Dingell. And so you are going to see to it that it is hardened against other natural disasters and also perhaps the activities of terrorists and others. Is that right? Mr. Ginn. Yes, sir. Mr. Dingell. Now, Mr. Ginn, will it also be designed with sufficient power-surge protection? Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Mr. Ginn, will the network be designed for peak usage capacity? Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Now, Mr. Ginn, will the network be designed to ensure that public safety has network priority at all times? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. Mr. Ginn, will the network be designed to ensure that critical mission services have enhanced security? Yes or no. Mr. Ginn. Yes. Mr. Dingell. I want to thank you, Mr. Ginn. You have been most gracious, and I want to encourage you to keep these matters in mind as you implement the public safety portions of the Act. Thank you for your courtesy. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your kindness to me. Have a good day. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The Chair now recognizes the former chairman of the Commerce Committee, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Barton. Mr. Barton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to say on the record that I want to commend you and Ms. Eshoo for holding this hearing. This is an example of the committee at its finest. FirstNet is really not operational. I think your first board meeting was last month, and we are conducting an oversight hearing in a bipartisan fashion to try to make sure that things go as they should go, so this shows the country that we can do things that are positive, and I want to commend both of you. I want to tell Mr. Ginn that it is not all peace and love. I am quite frankly skeptical of this whole concept. I would not have designed the legislation the way it was designed. I would not have passed the bill that became law exactly as is, but it is what it is, and we want you to be successful. But there are a few of us, at least me, that have some grave doubts about this, and again, knowing that you are just getting started, you are going to get the benefit of the doubt, but some of the questions that former Chairman Dingell just asked you, the only question he didn't ask was, when FirstNet is fully operational, will it have a direct line to heaven without a long-distance call. If you do everything you say you are going to do, this is going to be a phenomenal network, and I hope it is successful. But we are going to keep a watchful eye as FirstNet develops. I just want that to be on the record. Now, my specific questions are Texas specific, which normally I don't ask regional questions, but because FirstNet is in its infancy and Texas is something of an exception in that it had a BTOP grant in the Harris County-Houston, Texas, area, I am going to ask you some fairly specific questions, and if you need to have staff take a look at them, I totally understand. The first question deals with the BTOP project that was already underway in Texas. Texas has gotten an FCC waiver to continue that, but in the site visit that your agency made to Texas, they were told that if Texas wants to participate in FirstNet, they have to give the current assets they have already put in place to FirstNet. The question is, wouldn't the effect of this transfer of assets eliminate the state's statutory authority to opt out of the FirstNet deployment since it would otherwise be left with no beneficial access to those assets? Mr. Ginn. Well, first of all, Texas was funded through a different program than the BTOP program, and just let me say that we have included it because we would like to implement a showcase project. We would actually like to use these BTOP locations including the Houston area as showcases. Let us build them, let us take a look at them, let us let public safety take a look at them, let us upgrade our designs as a result of them, and then continue to implement across the country. I don't know what happens with the investment. Let me just say this. I am really--the issue of opt-out and opt-in, I think, is not so important. What is important is getting a national architecture in place so that you have interoperability, that you have cybersecurity, that you have network standards, and then who builds it and who owns is less important to me so long as we have those principles in place. So that is where I come out. I don't know who took that position but I will try to understand it and---- Mr. Barton. I like your answer. I think that is a fair answer. In my last 14 seconds, I have one more Texas-specific question. In the first FirstNet board meeting, which was recently held, the board approved Resolution 18, which directs the board to negotiate spectrum lease agreements with BTOP public safety grant recipients within 90 days. Texas was not included within that resolution, and there are concerns with the special temporary authority process because it is temporary, causing jurisdictions concern about investing money into the network and planning in Texas. Is there planning within NTIA and FirstNet to ensure that Texas is allowed to negotiate a long-term spectrum lease agreement, and if so, when might that be expected? Mr. Ginn. Well, hopefully within the next 90 days. Mr. Barton. Well, that is a good answer. But do you understand the intent? Texas doesn't want to negotiate a short- term deal and then not be able to do a long-term deal. What I am hearing you say is that in your position, you are open to that. Mr. Ginn. Well, yes, I am open to who builds the network in Texas so long as you meet the national standards that we put in place. Mr. Barton. It sounds good to me. I have several other questions but I will submit them for the record. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Walden. Thank you. I will now turn to the gentlelady from California, Ms. Matsui, for 5 minutes. Ms. Matsui. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. Mr. Ginn, I have a few questions here, following along with the question about states. There have been a lot of questions regarding outreach and some aspects of this, and just generally speaking, would you commit to getting these critical questions that have been occurring answered to the states' satisfaction before they have to make a decision about whether to opt out of the FirstNet network? Mr. Ginn. Well, I think one of the first principles, if you don't satisfy your customers, you don't succeed. So the idea that we are somehow not interested in custom requirements is just not true. We are going to spend a lot of time trying to understand them and incorporate them into our engineering. Ms. Matsui. That is a good answer. So you are going to be continuing to reach out to the states to ensure that their concerns are addressed, because there are some states obviously hesitant to sign on as a partner, which I believe will not really benefit the goal here, but if it seems like--I don't know what this is--if not enough states could ultimately opt out, do you have a backup plan for this? Mr. Ginn. Well, as I said before, to me, the opt-in, opt- out issue is not so important as us putting in place national standards that everybody agrees to so that we have interoperability, so that we have cybersecurity, that we have network standards. Who builds the network and operates the network beyond that, I think, is open and negotiable. Ms. Matsui. OK. Following along with that then, in his testimony, Mr. Barnett outlines a network-of-networks approach in which FirstNet's network will be based on a shared architecture approach with each smaller network presumably controlled at the state or local level, and Mr. Barnett argues that such an approach would present many more options to get private equity and public infrastructure involved. What do you think about his recommendation? Mr. Ginn. Well, the problem I have with it is I think you take risks around the issue of interoperability. If you have 15 people engineering a network, how you come out of that with national interoperability, I think, is a risk, the same with cybersecurity and the same with the standards of maintenance and reliability. Ms. Matsui. OK. I just right now would just like to make a statement for the record. I know it was brought up today about an individual that is on the FirstNet board who apparently there is some concern about whether this individual has knowledge to fulfill that position. I must say that this individual has been a CIO of two large states, Michigan and California, and I would just like to state for the record that she definitely understands the state focus, and, I just need to say for the record. I think it is important because this board is really just starting to form to a great degree and I think it is really very important that you get the best people there who understand what is going on at the state level. So I just want to make that comment. I appreciate very much, and if you want to make a comment, Mr. Ginn. Mr. Ginn. I would just say that she is an outstanding talent and I am so pleased with having her on board. Ms. Matsui. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Walden. The gentlelady yields back the balance of her time. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Terry. Mr. Terry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ginn, we will just stay with you. First of all, I am going to associate myself slightly with Mr. Barton's remarks. This seems to be such a monumental task, a huge beast that I am just wondering what its ultimate costs and bureaucracy will end up being. That is just a comment, not a question. I am curious. This is a question. The way it has been presented or I am envisioning what you are saying is, is it accurate to say this is a public safety intranet system nationwide? Mr. Ginn. Yes. I have been trying to think of a way to explain it simply, but let us just think of your electrical grid. We are going to put a wireless grid in place, and conceptually in any state or city, you can plug in the applications that make sense for running your operations. So with the app engine that we are going to put in, it is really going to revolutionize public safety. Let me put it to you this way. When you got your first cell phone, could you have predicted the number of apps that are available to you today? Mr. Terry. No, I couldn't, but I guess what I am saying is, there are not going to be other users accessing these transmission wires. I mean, there are not going to be other state activities or university activities or medical hospital to medical hospital activities? This is all going to be just traffic from public safety? Mr. Ginn. That is my understanding of the legislation, although hospitals may be included. I am not sure. Mr. Terry. All right. That is my understanding too. I just wanted to make sure, so I would call that an intranet when it is just, other users not allowed to be involved in that. Now, in your testimony you said that FirstNet must be larger, more resilient and more secure than commercial networks. I assume that is why it is more of an intranet than an internet, but you also stated it is going to be cheaper for users than any alternatives but we don't know what the costs there are, so I would want to know how it is going to be cheaper, but can you explain how a better network is going to be cheaper when by definition you have fewer users on that network? Mr. Ginn. Yes. I think the assumptions we are making here with scalability, with terminals, for instance, instead of ordering several thousand, we are ordering 4 to 5 million, we drive down dramatically the cost of the terminal. The same with radio access networks. If you order in volume, you get lower pricing. Mr. Terry. So you are going to be the central supplier of the equipment to each one of the public safety entities, so Omaha Fire Department comes to you for their handhelds? Mr. Ginn. Well, if they do, they will be able to get it, in my opinion, a lot cheaper. Mr. Terry. What do they do with their old equipment? Mr. Ginn. With their older? Mr. Terry. Their current handheld devices, radio services that they already have, do they scrap what they have? Mr. Ginn. Well, I think for mission-critical services, they will be used for a number of years, but for basic cellular traffic, that will be converted to the network almost immediately. Mr. Terry. OK. That is a question that several of our public safety and our state OI has asked me, are they going to be able to use the same equipment, are they going to have to swap it out or buy from you. There is a lot of unanswered questions here, and I understand it is very embryonic stage. Mr. Ginn. Yes. All of the above, by the way. Mr. Terry. All of the above? Mr. Ginn. And I think each state is going to have to make its own decisions about the rate of adoption and just what they implement in their state. Mr. Terry. All right. Last question. Does the FirstNet plan on charging municipality users to use the network? Mr. Ginn. The rate structures really haven't been developed, and I just would prefer not to comment until we have a sense of what our total costs are going to be and how we recover them. Mr. Terry. All right. Perfect. Yield my second. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The Chair now recognizes the new ranking member for the hour, Mr. Welch. Mr. Welch. Thank you very much. How does FirstNet plan to ensure that rural areas get access to the public safety broadband network? I know you probably have been talking a little bit about that but, we have got problems with the build-out in rural areas that are different, as you know, than urban areas. Mr. Ginn. I think the answer is that in some cases---- Mr. Welch. Can I interrupt? I think I jumped ahead of the line. All right. We are on the verge of doing something that Congress doesn't like to do, jump over seniority. Very dangerous when you are the jumper, so thank you, Mr. Pallone. Go ahead. Mr. Ginn. I think in some cases, we might negotiate with one of the existing carriers who now serves the rural areas to cover it. Mr. Welch. So you would partner with local carriers in rural areas? Mr. Ginn. Absolutely, and we would partner with rural local telephone companies or we might even cover those rural areas with satellite. Mr. Welch. So is the partnering going to save you some money and also---- Mr. Ginn. You would hope so. I mean, we have talked about, it has been mentioned in this forum about the value of the spectrum, and so we would use that to the maximum advantage to get perhaps a carrier to serve a rural area in exchange for some other use of the spectrum in another city. Mr. Welch. All right. Let me just ask you one other thing. It is terrific of the Chair to have this hearing because it is tough to get a hearing before this committee and subcommittee, so all of us are eager to get the 1-2-3 problems that you see as the biggest impediments to being successful in the effort, so what would you describe those to be? Mr. Ginn. What would---- Mr. Welch. You have got challenges. You have got impediments. You have got regulations. Mr. Ginn. Yes, we do. Mr. Welch. You have got hassles, and you are being polite here, OK? So just tell us what is going on, the biggest problems and impediments this committee needs to be aware of. Mr. Ginn. As I tried to say in my opening remarks, this is an enormous technical challenge. Mr. Welch. Well, we know that. Mr. Ginn. And basically trying to pull all the technical issues together along with a new---- Mr. Welch. I am not asking you that. That is the challenge. I am asking you what are the things that we are doing or policy-wise that are getting in the way of you being able to succeed in taking on that challenge? Mr. Ginn. Well, the chairman and I have had these discussions. Mr. Welch. Yes, but we haven't. Mr. Ginn. And if you look at government acquisition rules and procurement rules, in my opinion, they were designed for a specific purpose. Mr. Welch. So if you would change them, you would do what? Mr. Ginn. Well, I would greatly simplify them. Mr. Welch. Give me an example. Mr. Ginn. Well---- Mr. Welch. Look. Let me---- Mr. Ginn [continuing]. Right now---- Mr. Welch. We have to get real here. I mean, this is a big problem for the country. You are the guy who knows what the problems are. I am asking you what they are. Tell me what they are. Mr. Ginn. Well, I am told by government attorneys that if you want to negotiate a contract, you have to assume it is 18 months. Now, that is going to--in the commercial world, that is way beyond what it would ever take. Mr. Welch. So in order to---- Mr. Ginn. Number one. Mr. Welch. Go ahead. Mr. Ginn. And number two, in an iterative process, if you are looking-if you are negotiating with one carrier and you get an offer from a second carrier, you can't go back and change the document that allows you to negotiate with carrier A, so you---- Mr. Welch. So that is a practical challenge. Mr. Ginn. It is a practical challenge. Mr. Welch. Right. Mr. Ginn. And so it is going to add months and perhaps years to the implementation process. Mr. Welch. That is helpful to know. That is very helpful to know. Mr. Ginn. But I am very sensitive because I understand the need to be open and transparent and competitive, and I want to do that. Mr. Welch. So essentially, the big problem you have identified so far is the contracting process that takes too long and prohibits easy counteroffers. Mr. Ginn. Yes. It reduces our flexibility. Mr. Welch. OK. Thank you. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Scalise, for 5 minutes. Mr. Scalise. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for having the hearing and again for your leadership in getting this done in the first place, something that hadn't been done for years and years in Congress finally actually getting written into law. The tough part of getting the program put in place, getting the spectrum, getting the funding has been done but now your task is to do the tough part of actually building out the network, and so when you look at just how big of an undertaking this is going to be, I want to ask you, Mr. Ginn, how do you all go forward to make sure that you are able to ensure the solvency of this, to oversee that you don't have cost overruns that drive it up to a point where it ultimately is not able to be built out the way that Congress intended, since you are still in some of those early stages? We have seen, unfortunately, bad track records of big government projects yet there is the ability to get things like this done if it is laid out right in the front end. So how are you all approaching that to make sure those kind of problems don't happen? Mr. Ginn. I think in a very traditional way. You start out with a set of milestones, benchmarks, and then you measure yourself in performance and cost-wise in achieving those benchmarks, and if you get off scale, you deal with it, and so that is the way we are going to run FirstNet. We are going to run it like a business enterprise, and if people don't perform or people miss their budgets, we will deal with it. So I have done this before. It is not my first rodeo. So I think we are capable of managing the budgets that we put forward to the organization. Mr. Scalise. It is good to hear, and obviously we are going to be watching and working with you along the way to make sure that it happens that way because it is important to all of us like it is to you that it gets done correctly but it also gets done in a fiscally responsible way, the way it was intended. I want to talk to you about the timetables for moving forward with deployment. I know we have heard a lot about those BTOP grants that some states got through stimulus states like mine, Louisiana, that didn't get it yet have been moving forward on their own with building out an interoperable network because we can't wait. Unfortunately, we get a lot more than our fair share of hurricanes and other natural disasters and so our state has been moving forward building out its interoperable network. What would be a timetable that we could expect so that we are not hindered? We can't afford to wait maybe 5, 6 years from now and in the meantime there are going to be other things that we may have to deal with. Mr. Ginn. I wish I could be more specific, but I think our focus now is BTOP, get these agreed to and constructed and run the assessments on their performance and basically after that see where we are, and I am sorry I can't at this point go any further than that. Mr. Scalise. Because I know FCC granted something like 21 waivers to different states to at least have some waiver ability. Our state and others put in waiver requests that were rejected, and again, we still have the same needs with our first responders and we have been putting up our own money. Mr. Ginn. Our objective is to get this done as quickly as we possibly can, and so that is the only promise I can make to you is we want to get this system implemented as soon as we can. Mr. Scalise. All right. Thank you. Mr. Barnett, if I can ask you, in your Potomac Institute paper you talked about the opt-out process, and you said, I think your quote was, the opt-out process for states is akin to asking someone ``to obtain the broom from the Wicked Witch of the West, nearly impossible and fraught with risk.'' Can you explain that, kind of expand on what you mean by that? Admiral Barnett. Yes, sir. The statute does in fact provide an opt-out process for states but the time frames that are allowed the governor, after FirstNet determines that the cost and what would be done for the state, it is presented to the governor. The governor has 90 days to inform them whether they are going to opt out or not. They have 180 days to not only start but complete an RFP. So at the most, the amount of time would be 270 days, which is very difficult for a state to do, particularly for those states that may be on a biannual legislation process. There would have to be a whole lot of planning to happen before that, if they even have a chance, and even then, they have to get, in essence, approval from the FCC and from the NTIA, so it is a two-step process. So it is a pretty difficult process. All that can be obviated by bringing the states inside the tent rather than kind of outside and making sure that they understand what the needs are so that the states don't even to consider opting out. Mr. Scalise. All right. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The Chair now recognizes, as he should have earlier, the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes. Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask Mr. Ginn a question in regard to Hurricane Sandy and the lessons from that. My district and many other areas of my state were devastated by Superstorm Sandy last fall, and given the coastal location of our state and the associated emergency weather events, I was just going to ask what particular lessons do you think FirstNet could learn from New Jersey's BTOP grant, assuming it is allowed to proceed in the near future? In other words, what could be done better for the public to disseminate information or for first responders to communicate with each other, whatever, if you would try to respond to that. Mr. Ginn. Well, in engineering circles, it is not a secret. Typically what happens is, you lose power or towers become disabled, and so clearly in those prone areas of hurricanes, natural disasters, we are going to have to step up and strengthen the standards in those locations particularly, and we will do that. There is some--it is being debated at the moment but basically putting 150-mile-an-hour standard on new towers, and that would get the vast majority of hurricanes that are likely to hit New Jersey. Mr. Pallone. Well, I have to say just for my own experience as I was going around in the aftermath, in the immediate aftermath, that many times it was the same locations. In other words, we have had--I mean, this was certainly the worst I have ever seen but you had Irene, you had nor-easters, and many times it was the same location. Go ahead. I am sorry. Mr. Ginn. The other thing that happens, you lose backhaul, particularly if it is aerial, and so, we are going to look at all those standards in those critical locations. Mr. Pallone. I appreciate that because it gets frustrating after a time whether it is communications or it is power or whatever, you have so many people, and of course, now many of them are interested in buyouts have just had the same experience over and over again, and of course they come back to us and say well, you already knew that this was the problem area where we were going to have this problem, what are you doing about it. So I just want to stress that what you are doing is really important in terms of communications. That is really the key when these disasters strike and people expect us to do something about it and particularly now since they have had the experience a few times. Thank you very much. I yield back. Mr. Walden. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The Chair would ask unanimous consent to insert in the record a letter from Textron Systems Corporation detailing issues including their information that is available at www.connectingfirstresponders.com. Without objection, so ordered. [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Walden. And now the Chair will recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Long. Mr. Long. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I am glad that it is Ginn because if the guy across from me hollers ``gin'' that is usually not a good thing. Have you taken into consideration EMPs, electromagnetic pulse attacks on this new system that according to Congressman Dingell is going to be a vanguard against everything but I think that there is a very real possibility in the world we work in today that if a terrorist launched a missile off of the U.S. coast from a freighter that could release an EMP, that the damage would be immense. Are there any safeguards being built into the system? Mr. Ginn. Well, the technical group has taken a look at these issues, and I don't know. I am totally unfamiliar with how it might impact our system, but it is theoretically possible, but I don't at this point understand how we would deal with it, to be honest with you. Mr. Long. OK. Well, I would definitely recommend it because that is not only theoretically possible, I think that it is probable and one of the easier attacks for people to carry out against our country, so I would definitely think that the board members would definitely want to take that under advisement, and taking into consideration all of Congressman Dingell's questions, as Mr. Barton said was going to be built for everything, do you think that $7 billion is going to get this job done? Mr. Ginn. I don't know. I will have a conversation with that when we get more equipment pricing, we know what these systems are going to cost, the radio access is going to cost, what the terminals are going to cost, and the benefits of arbitrage deals that we may make with carriers. When I can pull all that information together, I think I can give you a reasonable estimate. Mr. Long. With taking into consideration the EF-5 tornado that we had in my district that was half-mile, three-quarter- mile wide, 6 miles on the ground that went through a town of 50,000 people, Joplin, Missouri, and the devastation, Congressman Dingell was asking you about generators and protecting them against natural disasters, and when a seven- story hospital is completely destroyed to the point that it was moved and had to be torn down, their backup generators, they were in the back of the building, ended up in the front parking lot of the building. So I don't know, but normally when the government thinks something will cost $7 billion, it usually costs about three times and takes about three times as long to do as what they think, but in rural areas with buildings, maintaining telecommunications networks is quite extensive. Does FirstNet plan to partner with existing rural telecommunication providers to build out and maintain the public safety broadband network? Mr. Ginn. Say that again. I am sorry. Mr. Long. Do you plan to partner with existing rural telecommunications providers to build out the system? Mr. Ginn. Absolutely. Mr. Long. You do? Mr. Ginn. Where it makes sense, we will. Mr. Long. Good. Mr. Ginn. We view it as a really good option if we can do that. Mr. Long. One of the most common criticisms of the broadband stimulus is that grants were awarded before work was completed to determine the investment was needed and now we hear testimony that FirstNet will produce its network build plan before it has finished asking states where they need additional assets. Shouldn't FirstNet conduct its consultation with the state before it decides where and how to build? Mr. Ginn. Well, see, I don't quite understand that. We have been directed to build an LTE network. We know what we are going to build, so the question is, how do we go about doing that and what kind of features and functions do we put in place. Mr. Long. But you can't do that before you talk to the states, can you, and find out what their needs are? Mr. Ginn. Well, the other assumption that you make is not true from my point of view is, we develop concepts, network concepts. We have not completed a final design, and we are not likely to ever complete a final design because as you learn, you update your architecture, and that will happen over time. Mr. Long. Let me move on real quick in my last few seconds here. What interaction has the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, NTIA, or the FCC had with other agencies that are not on the FirstNet board but have valuable expertise and critical infrastructure and telecommunications, and is everyone talking together? So again, what interaction have they had with other agencies that are not on the board? Mr. Ginn. I met with the chairman of the FCC yesterday, and NTIA has been wonderfully supportive of our efforts, given the fact that we were just getting started, no employees, no space, no anything, and they have been very helpful. Mr. Long. OK. Thank you, and I thank all our panelists for being here today, and I yield back. Mr. Walden. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from North Carolina, Mrs. Ellmers, for 5 minutes for questions. Mrs. Ellmers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ginn, I do want to kind of follow up on my colleague from Missouri on the question of partnering with other networks. Is this network going to be exclusively used by emergency personnel for emergency purposes or will you be allowing non-emergency uses currently offered by commercial providers to emergency and non-emergency personnel? Mr. Ginn. We will be providing, and I think the legislation supports communications for first responders for public safety, both mission critical and non-mission critical. Mrs. Ellmers. So it will be exclusively emergency usage? Mr. Ginn. Public safety. Mrs. Ellmers. Public safety emergency. OK. Great. Thank you. And again, thank you to all the panelists that are here. Mr. Ganley, your business model seems to be predicated on finding sufficient private equity interest to build out a network based on your technology. Have you secured this financial backing for such a project, and if not, why do you think that is? Mr. Ganley. First of all, actually the bulk, in many cases all of the funding would be debt, not equity. The reason that it can be structured as debt rather than equity is cheaper money because of the value of the spectrum. Now, sort of coming back to one of the questions you asked earlier, the legislation as created does allow for partnering, commercial partnering and for commercial use of the spectrum when public safety isn't using it, and as it happens, when you build these networks and they are large networks, public safety will not use or need all of the capacity on all of the cell towers all of the time. In fact, that will rarely, if ever, happen where they will need all of the capacity on all of the cell towers for a big period of time. So dynamically, you can create an arbitrage process where carriers and utilities and perhaps new businesses that we can't even think of right now but new entrants will come in and say we will pay, we will bid dynamically in real time for access to that bandwidth and we will do it on a free-market, competitive basis and compete with each other and we will name the prices that we will pay at any given moment to dynamically access that bandwidth. That creates a revenue flow, so they could be carriers, they could be, as I say, new entrants. That creates a source of revenue from this very valuable spectrum that can be used to pay for the accomplishment of the mission at the local, state and nationwide basis. So I expect that with this model, debt financed in most cases for rollouts in different parts of the country that it will provide not just the ability to pay for the build-out of the network in full and to pay for operations and maintenance and refreshing of handsets and equipment but in addition it will provide a surplus from several of the parts of the country that can go into a FirstNet pool. This is not my place to determine but I am just speculating here but it could go into a FirstNet pool that can pay for all of the additional applications, services and many of the demands that public safety are going to look to FirstNet to be able to achieve. So the short answer to your question is debt can pay for these networks because this spectrum is prime real estate. In the context of New York City, it is like a block of land on 55th and 5th. So let us say public safety needs four stories of the building every day. So we are saying build an 80-story building, public safety can have their first four stories, and if they need 80 stories on any given moment, they can have all of them immediately. When they are not using it, they can use all of that space to sublet to whoever wants to pay the most for it, kind of like those offices where you can rent an office for a day or a few hours, people can come in, whoever wants to bid the most gets the space. That income then is used to offset and pay down the debt so you service your debt first, you pay your fees, etc., your refreshing fees for the equipment and then you can then fund your nationwide mission also from that pool of capital. And the answer to your question, are the markets prepared to fund that model? The answer to that is, we believe so. We have been working with Wall Street, one of the top three banks on Wall Street has partnered with us on this, and they believe that the demand is likely to be there to ensure that the debt markets will very competitively fund the rollout of these types of networks, these LTE networks. Mrs. Ellmers. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, if you could indulge me for just a moment, I was just going to see if Mr. Ginn had maybe a follow- up to the answer that Mr. Ganley gave. Mr. Walden. I think we can do that. Without objection. Mr. Ginn. Yes. What I would say is, this is one method but this spectrum is going to be arbitraged one way or the other, and the question is, do you follow that process or do you follow another process that we negotiate with the carriers for the arbitrage or the use of the secondary spectrum. Mrs. Ellmers. Great. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. So this is one method, not necessarily the one that will be---- Mr. Ginn. Well, there are a number of ways to do this. That is one way. Mrs. Ellmers. OK. Thank you so much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to ask that follow-up. Mr. Walden. Absolutely. We are here to get answers. We now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Lance, for 5 minutes, and if you don't have any questions on this panel, I believe we have exhausted our members and probably the panel, so we appreciate your participation. We look forward to continuing this dialog. As you know, I believe in doing the oversight, and just because we pass a law doesn't mean we are done with that law, and your counsel has given us more issues to deal with. So thank you very much for your good work for the country, and we will work together to build out this interoperable public safety broadband network for our first responders and for the safety of our citizens. Thank you, you are dismissed. We will welcome our second panel of witnesses. As our panelists make their way to the witness table, I am going to turn over the chairmanship to the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Lance, who obviously represents a state that was very adversely affected by Hurricane Sandy, and I thought it appropriate for him to chair this segment of our hearing so we can all learn more about emergency response. Mr. Lance. [Presiding] Good afternoon, and we certainly welcome the panel. We have four witnesses, and we will ask our first witness, Mr. Turetsky, the Chief of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau of the Federal Communications Commission for an opening statement, and we welcome you, Mr. Turetsky, and you have 5 minutes for an opening statement. Thank you. STATEMENTS OF DAVID TURETSKY, CHIEF, PUBLIC SAFETY AND HOMELAND SECURITY BUREAU, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION; DIANE KNIOWSKI, PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, WOOD/WOTV/WXSP, LIN MEDIA; CHRISTOPHER GUTTMAN-MCCABE, VICE PRESIDENT, REGULATORY AFFAIRS, CTIA-THE WIRELESS ASSOCIATION; AND TREY FORGETY, DIRECTOR, GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, NATIONAL EMERGENCY NUMBER ASSOCIATION STATEMENT OF DAVID TURETSKY Mr. Turetsky. Thank you, Congressman, and I should say from the outset that I grew up in New Jersey and went to high school there, so---- Mr. Lance. Where did you grow up in New Jersey? Mr. Turetsky. I grew up in Paramus, New Jersey. Mr. Lance. Bergen County. Lots of good shopping in Paramus. Mr. Turetsky. There is. Mr. Lance. Thank you very much. Mr. Turetsky. Except on Sundays. Mr. Lance. Blue laws still exist in Bergen County, yes. Mr. Turetsky. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. Today I will address first the FCC's efforts to strengthen the resiliency of our Nation's critical communications including emergency 9-1-1; second, modernizing our 9-1-1 system through next-generation technology; third, enhancing our emergency alert and warning systems; and fourth, securing our cyber environment. First, a critical test of the reliability of our communications networks was the fast-moving and unexpected derecho storm in June that severely disrupted service provider networks that serve 9-1-1 facilities. Seventeen 9-1-1 call centers, also called PSAPs, lost service completely, affecting the ability of over 2 million people to reach 9-1-1. Seventy- seven PSAPs serving more than 3.6 million people lost some degree of connectivity including vital 9-1-1 location information. The FCC's Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau conducted an extensive inquiry into the causes and released a report finding that 9-1-1 communications were disrupted largely due to planning and system failures that could have been avoided if providers had followed industry best practices and guidance. Next week, the Commission will consider launching a proceeding seeking public input on recommendations from the report including ensuring that service providers conduct periodic audits of 9-1-1 circuits and maintain adequate backup power at central offices. Yet another challenge to our communications networks came in October, of course, with Superstorm Sandy. For example, about 25 percent of mobile antenna sites in the affected region went out of service with higher service losses in New Jersey and parts of New York. The 9-1-1 networks, however, fared much better than in the derecho. In Sandy's wake, the Commission began field hearings exploring communications resiliency and related topics. The first was held in early February in New York City and in Hoboken, New Jersey, and the second was held 2 weeks ago in California. The FCC will use the information gathered to consider options to ensure greater network robustness. Second, we are moving forward with Next Generation, or NG, 9-1-1 technology, as it is called, which will improve the reliability and performance of 9-1-1 in future disasters. Specifically, NG 9-1-1 will facilitate interoperability and improve connections and information for and between 9-1-1 call centers. It will not only support traditional 9-1-1 calls but also the transmission of text, photos, videos and data so that emergency responders can respond more effectively. As we consider the path to NG 9-1-1, the Commission has been working with stakeholders to achieve the near-term step of enabling text messaging to 9-1-1, which might sometimes be the only way for a person to get help. The Commission initiated a rulemaking in December that builds on a voluntary agreement by AT&T, Verizon, Sprint Nextel and T-Mobile along with APCO and NENA under which each carrier would provide text to 9-1-1 service by May of next year to requesting PSAPs. Also last month, pursuant to the NG 9-1-1 Advancement Act, the Commission submitted to Congress a report with recommendations on how to address legal and regulatory barriers to the transition. The lead recommendation is for Congress to create incentives for states to become early adopters of NG 9- 1-1. Third, we are working with FEMA and others to make people safer by ensuring that the public can receive emergency alerts and warnings over multiple communications technologies. Wireless emergency alerts, or WEA, addressed by the WARN Act is an example. The public receives geographically targeted alerts over mobile devices about imminent threats to life and property. We are working with stakeholders on a voluntary basis to continue to improve the program. The Emergency Alert System, or EAS, also continues to be a critical part of our Nation's primary alerting system, and along with our federal partners, we are working to modernize and diversify it. Finally, we are committed to promoting the cybersecurity of our critical communications infrastructure. We work with stakeholders in a public-private partnership to develop voluntary measures and best practices. We have also developed tools to promote mobile cybersecurity like our smartphone security checker, which helps consumers protect their mobile devices, and our Small Biz Cyber Planning for small businesses. I thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I am pleased to answer any questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Turetsky follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.058 Mr. Lance. Thank you very much, and I am very impressed you came within 2 seconds of your time. You had 2 seconds to go, so that is a very good job and I am very impressed. Our next witness is Diane Kniowski, President and General Manager of WOOD, WOTV, WXSP, Lin Media, and we welcome you to Washington. STATEMENT OF DIANE KNIOWSKI Ms. Kniowski. Good morning, Congressman Lance and Congressman Welch. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the valuable, often lifesaving services that local radio and television broadcasters provide during disasters and other weather emergencies. At our core, broadcasters are first and foremost and for decades have been the most important source of vital emergency information for all Americans. When a tornado rips through Missouri or an earthquake shakes California, listeners and viewers turn to their local broadcasters for news and information. When the power goes out, when phone service and the Internet may go down, broadcasters are there and on the air. I have seen it personally in Michigan. In February 2011, a major blizzard dropped 25 inches of snow in a 24-hour period. We knew it was coming, so we went into action. Three days prior to the storm, we began alerting the public on what areas would be hit and what essentials would be needed in the home. We sent teams into the field keeping abreast of what was happening. We stayed on the air for 3 to 4 days until the roads were cleared and we knew there was no loss of life. I still remember the many letters we received from viewers thanking us. And stations around the country do the same thing. For example, during Hurricane Sandy, WABC-TV in New York prepared in advance for the storm. They shored up their infrastructure, inspecting and securing rooftop and tower antennas and testing backup transmission paths. On the radio side, the engineering team at Clear Channel's radio stations moved backup generators and reserve transmitters into the area. They implemented longstanding fuel contracts and gathered satellite phones and mobile housing for staff. As the storm knocked out other means of communications in many parts of the tri-state area for nearly a week, broadcasters were ready for the storm's fallout. For decades, radio and television broadcasters have been the backbone of the Nation's Emergency Alert System, known as EAS. EAS is a national public warning network that connects public safety authorities to the public through over-the-air radio and television stations and cable systems with a simple push of a button. In addition to alerting the public of local weather emergencies such as tornadoes and flash foods, EAS is designed to allow the President to speak to the United states within 10 minutes. The EAS system works through a chain reaction of alerting that begins at the broadcast radio level. For example, WTOP here in D.C. is a primary station that other broadcast stations and cable systems monitor for local alerts. All EAS participants are required to maintain FCC-certified EAS equipment that continuously monitors the signals of at least nearby sources for EAS messages. Broadcasters work in partnership with state, county, and local emergency managers and public safety officials on how best to deploy EAS in each state. Although EAS can be triggered by the President and state or local authorities under certain conditions, the majority of the alerts are originated by local emergency managers and the National Weather Service. The EAS is also used for Amber Alerts. This was created by broadcasters and local law enforcement in Texas in 1996. To date, over 600 abducted children have been successfully recovered, and at my station, we routinely put these alerts out with much success, and it is one of the most gratifying parts of my job as a broadcaster. Clearly, EAS participation is an important component of our public service, and broadcasters are proud of our pivotal role. Although participation in EAS on the local level is technically voluntary, virtually every radio and television station in the country participates, and we do so enthusiastically. All EAS equipment is purchased by broadcasters at their own expense and all stations must test their EAS systems on a weekly and monthly basis. At my station, we also conduct surprise emergency rehearsals four times a year because rehearsals help identify problems and issues. In November 2011, FEMA and the FCC conducted the first-ever nationwide test. The purpose of the test was diagnostic and included participation from every radio and television station in the United states. The test was successful and served its purpose of finding where any technical problems may exist. The issues that were discovered are being addressed, which is precisely why we fully support testing the EAS on a regular basis. I am grateful for this opportunity to share my views on broadcast emergency communication. I look forward to working with you toward our shared goal of keeping the American people safe through timely alerts and warnings. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Kniowski follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.060 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.061 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.062 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.063 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.064 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.065 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.066 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.067 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.068 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.069 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.070 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.071 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.072 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.073 Mr. Lance. Thank you very much, and thank you for our public service regarding emergencies that occur across the country. Ms. Kniowski. My pleasure. Mr. Lance. Our next witness is Christopher Guttman-McCabe, who is the Vice President for Regulatory Affairs at CTIA-The Wireless Association. Good afternoon. STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER GUTTMAN-MCCABE Mr. Guttman-McCabe. Good afternoon, and thank you, Congressman and members of the subcommittee. On behalf of CTIA--The Wireless Association, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today on the subject of emergency communications. The wireless industry recognizes its role as a link between citizens and public safety officials and works hard to ensure that this link is as vibrant and reliable as possible. Today, my testimony will focus on two areas. First, I want to provide the subcommittee with an update on the Wireless Emergency Alert Program. This program is a true public-private success story. Second, I want to urge you to work with the wireless industry and other interested parties to create a uniform national baseline for liability protection for text to 9-1-1 and NG 9-1-1 services. The Wireless Emergency Alert Program is an outgrowth of this committee's efforts to enact the WARN Act. CTIA supported this legislation, which we believe struck a balance by augmenting the existing emergency alerting system without imposing new prescriptive mandates on the wireless industry. This approach was consistent with and built up previous public- private partnerships that led to the successful creation of Wireless Priority Service and the Wireless Amber Alert Program. In the period since enactment of the WARN Act, we have moved from an advisory committee to an FCC rulemaking, standards development, coordination with FEMA and now deployment. I am pleased to say that the results of the Wireless Emergency Alert Program justify the effort. Just last month, the National Weather Service alone sent 100 tornado alerts, 80 blizzard alerts, 40 flash food warnings and five ice storm alerts, and as a father, in a story that warms my own heart, last month also saw the first successful recovery of an abducted child as a result of a wireless Amber Alert. As Minnesota's Public Safety Commissioner observed, wireless emergency alerts are another important way to ensure that the public receives vital information right away wherever they are. The wireless alert program is working as this committee envisioned it would. Its utility will only grow as additional alert-capable handsets are deployed and the carriers and FEMA work towards a more granular alerting capability. With this in mind, CTIA urges Congress to resist calls to impose new technology or participation mandates that could threaten the public-private collaboration that has produced a 21st-century complement to the television and radio alerts that we all grew up with. Those broadcast and radio alerts remain valuable but are inadequate by themselves for today's highly mobile citizenry. Wireless alerts fill the gaps by notifying those not within the reach of radio or television. The second issue we commend to the attention of the committee is the need for clear, comprehensive, standardized, nationwide limitation of liability protection for all entities participating in any aspect of emergency communications including text to 9-1-1 and NG 9-1-1 services. The existing protections flow from the state-based laws that were originally adopted for wireline providers in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. Those protections were extended to wireless and VoIP providers under federal law but they vary by state. Merely extending the patchwork of state legislation to 9-1-1 service providers is insufficient because states vary significantly in terms of the duties of care and the potential liabilities imposed on 9-1-1 activities. CTIA and others believe it is time for a comprehensive effort to establish a nationwide, overarching, platform-agnostic federal liability standard for Next Generation 9-1-1. A failure to do so could hamper the transition to these services. There is a general expectation that robust, reliable 9-1-1 and ultimately NG 9-1-1 services should be available to every consumer irrespective of what jurisdiction he or she may be in at their time of need. Providers should be covered by a similar ubiquitous, reliable, consistent standard for liability protection. The recent commitment by the four national carriers along with APCO and NENA to develop and deploy text to 9-1-1 capabilities highlights the need for federal engagement. This voluntary framework will provide near-term emergency communications options for wireless subscribers who rely on SMS for everyday communications including individuals who are deaf, hard of hearing or speech-impaired. In its recent report to Congress, the FCC specifically called for extending liability protection to any entity that is providing NG 9-1-1 services on a voluntary basis. The industry is working hard to bring this capability to consumers. Congress can support this effort by ensuring that carriers and others involved in the provision of these services are covered by appropriate liability protections. CTIA and its members look forward to working with the committee on these issues and other matters intended to promote secure, reliable, emergency communication services. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Guttman-McCabe follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.074 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.075 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.076 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.077 Mr. Lance. Thank you very much for your testimony, very timely testimony. Our next witness is Trey Forgety, the Director of Government Affairs, the National Emergency Number Association. Good afternoon. STATEMENT OF TREY FORGETY Mr. Forgety. Good afternoon, Representative Lance and also Representative Welch and Mr. Vice Chairman Latta. I will submit my written testimony for the record, but I would like to summarize just a little bit and provide a few comments on some of the items brought up by the other witnesses. NENA is the only professional organization devoted exclusively to 9-1-1. It is our wheelhouse. It is our everything. And about 10 years ago, we recognized the acute need to start planning for a future that wasn't based on technologies that were reaching 100 years of age. The telephone has been with us for a very long time now, and for the past 45 years it has been the basis of our public communications system for reporting emergencies, 9-1-1. But the way the public communicates is changing very rapidly. Already, we have seen consumers shed their wirelines in droves. Businesses are now following suit. Voice over IP adoption rates are off the charts. Consumers are using mobile technologies in ways never before thought possible. Voice, text, mobile, voice over IP, all of these technologies are coming onto the market and they are being adopted quickly by consumers. Now, the first panel this morning talked quite a bit about FirstNet, and FirstNet, I think, is a very important technology but neither FirstNet nor 9-1-1 can be looked at by themselves. Ultimately, what citizens need is an end-to-end system that allows them to report their emergencies to public safety officials and receive a response that works, and that can happen in our interconnected world only if citizens have the ability to push the data that they have--images, videos, medical data, location information--only if they can push that data directly to the public safety answering points and the public safety answering points can push it directly to the responders. That is going to take a great deal of coordination and it is going to take a great deal of detailed work to make sure that we have standards that work across platforms, across technologies and so forth. I think we have laid a very firm foundation for that. We have seen just recently the FCC's CSRIC, Communications, Security, Reliability and Interoperability Council, is working on and will soon finalize a report on new location technologies that will make it easier than ever to locate people who call 9- 1-1, to locate responders who use FirstNet to communicate. We have got to remember, in a mobile and interconnected world, those are one and the same technologies and both the public and first responders should have access to advanced location technologies. But getting there is not going to be easy ultimately. 9-1-1 has been a success in part because it has been so reliable. It has been a great experiment of states and localities basically working from the ground up. Now, there are things that Congress can do, and I think Representative Eshoo put it well earlier as did Chairman Walden. There are policy changes that can be made that will help to move the ball forward, and I think the important thing to remember about that is, there are easy policy changes that require little or no new money to get good outcomes at the state and local level. One simple thing that Congress can do is to level the playing field. Right now, we have about half a dozen different federal agencies that supply grant funding for public safety, everything from police, fire, EMS and so forth, but in nearly all of those instances, 9-1-1 is not included in the definition of public safety. Now, it is true, of course, that 9-1-1 in many places is part of one of these other services but typically those other services want to focus on their core issues. If it law enforcement, it is guns and badges on the street. If it is fire, it is engines and firefighters. We need to level that playing field so that 9-1-1 is mentioned specifically in public safety grant programs so that they can compete for those federal funds on an equal basis with the other public safety professionals. And I will close with this. The last piece is cybersecurity and network resilience, and those are two fundamentally important issues for 9-1-1, and Next Generation 9-1-1 will have tremendous benefits in this regard in terms of improving reliability, resiliency, redundancy, path diversity. Already we have standards work done in the areas of encryption and authentication, role-based access models, all of which can be leveraged by FirstNet to drive down the cost of implementation for both systems, and I think that is a key important point is, this ecosystem, if it works right, if it works together, it can save the public a lot of money, a lot of lives and a lot of property. And I thank you for your time, and I welcome your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Forgety follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.078 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.079 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.080 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.081 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.082 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.083 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.084 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.085 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.086 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0378.087 Mr. Lance. Thank you very much for your testimony. I have several questions, and I appreciate all of your being here to be with us today. Mr. Turetsky, I have a question related to the district I serve. One of the counties in the district I serve, Somerset County, New Jersey, spent a considerable sum of money in attempting to comply with the FCC's narrow banding order, and the county successfully moved about half of its communication equipment into the T band spectrum before the January 1st deadline. Now, due to legislation that Congress passed last year that created FirstNet, it is going to have to vacate that spectrum in order for the T band to be auctioned and to upgrade its equipment yet again. I have recently written the FCC on the matter, and I am hoping that you might be able to provide some insight into what assistance might be available to Somerset County to help it comply with the directives. We have significant concerns with how to pay for the necessary upgrades, given the fact that the county in good faith tried to do what was appropriate at the time, and I would appreciate any comments you might have regarding that and I hope to work with the FCC on this issue. Mr. Turetsky. We look forward to working with you on this, Congressman. To my understanding, Somerset County responded to the narrow banding requirements just as it should. After it began to respond, Congress passed a law, as you mentioned, which changed the treatment of spectrum in that band and required that it be given up. The FCC promptly issued a blanket waiver so that jurisdictions like Somerset County would not need to continue to spend money on narrow banding anymore, given that they had to give that up. We have a notice outstanding where we are seeking comment on what the costs are going to be on moving from the T band to other bands and all related questions about what band may be a suitable place to move. As that comes in, we will continue to work with all of the stakeholders including Somerset County on these issues. The FCC, of course, doesn't have a budget to pay for this. That is not one of the things that Congress has given us. Mr. Lance. Are there a lot of counties in that situation? Mr. Turetsky. There were a number who were midstream, which is why we issued a blanket waiver. Mr. Lance. Thank you. What impresses me is, no good deed goes unpunished, and we want to move forward in an appropriate way and we hope that the county can recoup some of its financial losses in that regard. On a previous panel, to you as well, Mr. Turetsky, we heard from interested stakeholders with respect to FirstNet. Your bureau is charged with public safety issues, the Commission. We have heard that the FCC has informally halted all equipment authorizations related to band 14 devices while FirstNet determines what its network architecture will look like. Given that FirstNet has no authority to determine the emissions criteria for FCC equipment authorization, when in your judgment will authorizations resume? Mr. Turetsky. We issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the last few days that asks questions about those very subjects. When the record is complete, we will move expeditiously to authorize equipment for that band. Mr. Lance. Thank you. Is it possible for you to give us a time frame as to when that might be? Mr. Turetsky. It just went out for public comment. I don't know if it has actually been published in the Federal Register but it is public now. It was issued by the FCC. So when the comment period closes, we will move as expeditiously as we can. Mr. Lance. Is the comment period, is that 45 days or 90 days? Mr. Turetsky. I have to check. It is somewhere in the 45- day range. I will get back to you on exactly what it is. Mr. Lance. Thank you for answering the question. Mr. Guttman-McCabe, your industry has agreed to implement a text to 9-1-1 capability despite the short messaging service's perhaps inadequacy to do the task. What real-world limitations will those seeking emergency service face when using SMS to 9- 1-1? Mr. Guttman-McCabe. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. I think first of all out of the gate, whether it is NENA or the FCC, I think the message that would come from the industry or public safety officials is at every opportunity if you can dial 9-1-1, it is sort of a last resort. The networks weren't designed--the SMS networks, the testing networks were not designed to really be real time, and for those who have sent a text and it has not been delivered in a timely manner, you understand what we are talking about. What we are trying to do is put a band-aid here until we get to Next Generation 9-1-1, and our four largest carriers realized working with NENA and APCO and Mr. Turetsky and the Commission that we could do something that could be beneficial in the short term. But there are a number of hiccups. It involves the delay. It is a store-and-forward technology. It is designed in essence to move into the network and then get delivered. It doesn't have the same location-based service capabilities that a call, the wireless 9-1-1 calls were engineered for. So it really is a stopgap. It is designed to help some of the communities that rely on SMS, the hard of hearing or those with difficulties, and it s something we committed to. As I said, we hope that Congress will help us and step up with some form of liability protection because this is a service that we have committed to voluntarily but this is not perfect, and we obviously didn't want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good but as we move to Next Generation 9-1-1, it would be helpful to have Congress help implement some form of liability protection. Mr. Lance. Thank you very much for your answer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Welch for 5 minutes. Mr. Welch. Thank you very much. Vermont has been a leader on the enhanced 9-1-1 and it has been helpful. Just a couple of stories. One person sent in a one-word text ``suicide'' and they were able to figure out what the address was, and this person was actually in the process of following through, and we are all glad to say was saved. But then another one, and this would be a lot more common, I think. A women was getting beaten up by a drunk husband, and getting on the phone is not an option at that point, but she was able to text, and the police responded and took care of the situation. So I really applaud you all for that effort. Mr. Turetsky, do you want to add anything that you weren't able to say in response to questions from Mr. Lance? Mr. Turetsky. No, Congressman, I think you have highlighted the importance of text to 9-1-1. There are at least three circumstances where it is vital, and I agree with Mr. McCabe that in general, the right course would be to make a voice call. The three circumstances where text to 9-1-1 is essential are, one, for the hearing impaired and the speech impaired, and number two, where as a matter of safety making a call is impossible, and you have given an illustration of that, and number three, sometimes in situations of network congestion, a text is more likely to go through and actually more reliable than a phone call would be. The other aspect of this is, it also provides an opportunity for the call takers or text takers, as it is, to open up multiple texts at one time and prioritize so that they can go to the fourth one in the queue and they see that is the lifesaving emergency. So we think it is very, very important, and Vermont has been a real leader in testing this. Mr. Welch. Well, good. Thank you all for your work on this, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Lance. Thank you very much. We now recognize the vice chair of the subcommittee, Mr. Latta from Ohio. Mr. Latta. Thank you very much, and thank you very much to our panel for being here. Mr. Guttman-McCabe, if I could ask, we are talking about the fees associated with e-911, and I am particularly interested, what is happening with these fees and are they going to where they are supposed to be going at all times? Mr. Guttman-McCabe. Thank you, Congressman. I guess the short answer, and then I will continue after that is, unfortunately, no. They are not always going where we hope they would. Congress stepped up several years and tasked the FCC with putting together a report back to Congress on the status of their rating of e-911 funds, and we have worked with NENA and APCO in the past and for years to try to really shine a light on this, and in the most recent report that came right around the end of the year to Congress, seven states had raided the funds, and we continue to see that, and we think in an environment where there is such reliability on being able to connect with public safety through your wireless devices, it really does trouble us that there are states that continue to raid the funds. I am sure there are legitimate reasons. Some of them are as simple as budget shortfalls. But I don't think any of them rise to the level of being acceptable when you balance it versus the needs of the public safety, the PSAP community. Mr. Welch. Let me just follow up. Is there any idea how much that is in those states that has been diverted? Mr. Forgety. If I could answer, Congressman, I can give you one example in particular to just give you an idea of the scope and scale of the problem. A few years ago, the state of Arizona actually diverted over $50 million from their state 9-1-1 fund alone. We saw, I believe in the state of New York, I recently saw reports that over $150 million had been diverted over the course of some period of time. In some states, 9-1-1 fees are statutorily protected. They are not subject to appropriations for other purposes. In other states, they aren't protected, and in some cases, what may be called a 9-1-1 fee may actually go directly to the state's general fund and then be subject to primary appropriation from the get-go, so it may never get to 9-1-1 in the first place. Mr. Latta. Well, Mr. Forgety, since you got the mike right now, let me ask you a follow-up and another question to you then. As your testimony indicates, our Nation's 9-1-1 call centers are not considered public safety under the definition in federal law. How will that impact your ability to participate in FirstNet? Mr. Forgety. Congressman, I think that is a key issue for 9-1-1. As the FirstNet board was initially formulated, there is not a distinct 9-1-1 community representative on that board, and I think adding a 9-1-1 representative would be an excellent move for FirstNet. We have been invited to participate in the Public Safety Advisory Committee, although, again, I would point out that while there are representatives, I believe it is police, fire, sheriff and EMS, to the executive committee, there is not a 9-1-1 representative. So I think just making certain that 9-1-1 has a seat at the table from the very beginning would be very beneficial to make sure that the two systems work together the way they should. Mr. Latta. OK. Let me follow up with one last question to you, if I may. Given the financial situation around the country, what is a realistic timeline for the text to 9-1-1 capabilities to be deployed in the PSAPs? Mr. Forgety. That is a very complicated question because every state is in a different posture. For example, Mr. Welch's state is already way ahead. They have a near-Next Generation 9- 1-1 system already deployed. My home state of Tennessee is deploying some baseline capabilities. They will be ready to take text probably within a year or so of the carrier deployment deadline. Other states are hanging back and probably won't be prepared for 2 to 3 years at the very earliest. Now, the text proposal that we entered into with Mr. Guttman-McCabe's members leaves open an option which is a TTY conversion option. That is an old technology primarily used now to support the deaf and hard-of-hearing communities' access to 9-1-1. That technology will make it possible for every PSAP today to take text if they are ready, willing and able. Under Justice Department regulations promulgated pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act, every PSAP must have TTY capability at every position. So they can do it today if they have the training, if they have the experience, circuit capacity and so forth. There are all those sorts of issues but it is going to be a few years before we have it nationwide. Mr. Latta. Thank you. And just briefly, Ms. Kniowski, if I may, you mentioned in your testimony about a need out there for credentialing for folks who are out there in the field. Do any states issue credentials right now to reporters or linemen or anything like that? Ms. Kniowski. Not that I am aware of, but we do request it, and one of the reasons is, we have to get to our transmitters, we have to get to our towers, we have to have gasoline trucks come in and fill our tanks so we can stay on the air and get the information to the community in need. Mr. Latta. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. Mr. Lance. Thank you, Mr. Latta. The Chair recognizes the ranking member, Congresswoman Eshoo of California. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is nice to see you in the chair. Mr. Lance. Thank you. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you to the witnesses, and it really is a huge thanks because we have been working on the whole issue of e-911 for a long, long time now. I was a young woman when I started out on this venture, and I just thought that the entire Congress would come along because I made the most plausible case about what we needed to do, and most frankly, it took some time for the issue to mature, and I said many times, it matured during one of the great crises in our country when we were attacked, and that is when minds started opening up about what we could do, what we should do, and how to structure it, so I want to thank all of you for the roles that you have played in it. They have been significant and they are very important. First I think to each one of you. As you know, last year's derecho storms severely disrupted 9-1-1-related communications, particularly in parts of northern Virginia. Would a NextGen 9- 1-1 environment provide call centers with greater reliability and resiliency during a natural disaster? Just very quickly. Mr. Turetsky. Yes, it would, Congresswoman. It provides many more routes to get calls to a 9-1-1 call center, and it reduces the points of failure that would obstruct that. Ms. Eshoo. Great. Ms. Kniowski? Ms. Kniowski. I am sorry. Could you repeat the question? Ms. Eshoo. Sure. I was asking if NextGen 9-1-1 environment would provide call centers with greater reliability and resiliency during a natural disaster, and I used northern Virginia as an example of what happened. Ms. Kniowski. Yes, and we are in support of that and anything that can help the community and communicate with the community and the community communicate back we are in support of. Mr. Guttman-McCabe. Yes, Congresswoman. That is certainly an expectation. Ms. Eshoo. Great. Mr. Forgety? Mr. Forgety. The answer to your question is yes, it can, and at a much lower cost than can be done today. Ms. Eshoo. I like that. That sounds very good. It is my understanding while I have you, Mr. Forgety, that NENA has worked closely with the four largest wireless carriers to reach a voluntary agreement to make text to 9-1-1 service available. I really applaud this. It is very exciting. It is important, very important effort. Do you intend to pursue a similar process or an agreement with rural and regional and smaller carriers so that these services can be made available to all consumers? Mr. Forgety. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman, and thank you for your leadership as the Chair of the NextGen 9-1-1 Caucus. It has been very effective and helpful. The answer to your question is emphatically yes. NENA has already engaged with representatives from small and rural carriers and we will be continuing to do that with an eye toward crafting some form of agreement that aligns well with the FCC's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking but also with the unique needs of that carrier community. Ms. Eshoo. That is terrific. Thank you very, very much for your leadership and what you are doing across the board but also on this last issue. Now, last month the FCC issued a detailed roadmap to Congress on how best to advance and deploy Next Generation 9-1- 1 across our country. One recommendation is to ensure appropriate liability protection for entities supporting or providing these services. From any one of you, maybe Mr. Guttman-McCabe, because you discussed this idea extensively in your testimony, do you agree that Congressional action is necessary? Mr. Guttman-McCabe. We do, Congresswoman. Ms. Eshoo. I don't know if this was touched on while I was out. Mr. Guttman-McCabe. I managed to take an opportunity to slide it in there in an earlier answer, but I won't miss an opportunity to bring it up again. The original protections came about literally in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, and they were based obviously at that time on the telephone system, and so when you look at the state statutes and the Net 9-1-1 Act extended at the federal level those protections that existed in the states to wireless and VoIP. The problem is, a significant number of states either don't have protection or have protection that specifically is identified for telephone or voice-provided services. I mean, there are a lot of qualifiers, a lot of adjectives or descriptive adjectives in the existing state-based legislation that causes concern and so whether it is the current voluntary text to 9-1-1 effort or the future Next Generation 9-1-1, there really is significant desire for Congress to step up here and provide the same type of liability protection that they have done in the past. Ms. Eshoo. Thank you to each one of you for what you are doing and for being instructive to us today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back. Mr. Lance. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and our thanks to the entire panel for your expertise, very cogent answers and the hearing now stands adjourned. Thank you. 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