[House Hearing, 113 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
CRISIS IN SYRIA: THE U.S. RESPONSE
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MARCH 20, 2013
__________
Serial No. 113-10
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
DANA ROHRABACHER, California Samoa
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio BRAD SHERMAN, California
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
TED POE, Texas GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MATT SALMON, Arizona THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina KAREN BASS, California
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
MO BROOKS, Alabama DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
TOM COTTON, Arkansas ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
PAUL COOK, California JUAN VARGAS, California
GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III,
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania Massachusetts
STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas AMI BERA, California
RON DeSANTIS, Florida ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
TREY RADEL, Florida GRACE MENG, New York
DOUG COLLINS, Georgia LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
TED S. YOHO, Florida JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
LUKE MESSER, Indiana
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
The Honorable Robert S. Ford, American Ambassador to Syria....... 5
The Honorable Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau for
Population, Refugees, and Migration, U.S. Department of State.. 11
The Honorable Nancy E. Lindborg, Assistant Administrator, Bureau
for Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance, United
States Agency for International Development.................... 18
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
The Honorable Robert S. Ford: Prepared statement................. 7
The Honorable Anne C. Richard: Prepared statement................ 13
The Honorable Nancy E. Lindborg: Prepared statement.............. 20
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 56
Hearing minutes.................................................. 57
The Honorable Eliot L. Engel, a Representative in Congress from
the State of New York: Prepared statement...................... 59
CRISIS IN SYRIA: THE U.S. RESPONSE
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WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 2013
House of Representatives,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:52 a.m., in
room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edward Royce
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Chairman Royce. This hearing will come to order, and today
we meet to review the Syrian crisis.
It was 2 years ago last week that on the nightly news we
saw those protestors walking through the street chanting,
``Peaceful, peaceful.'' And the thing the world saw next was
that the Syrian forces opened up with small arms fire on the
marchers. Over the ensuing weeks that was followed by artillery
barrages, followed by tanks flattening villages, followed
eventually by aerial bombardment, and finally by Scud missiles
into cities.
We are now 2 years into that Syrian uprising, and for 2
bloody years U.S. policy has been adrift. Initially, the Obama
administration saw Assad as a reformer in their words. Once the
revolt started, it backed U.N. diplomacy, and then bet on
Moscow to play a constructive role. Predictably, none of this
has worked. Yet even today, Secretary Kerry talks of Assad
coming to the table.
This is the Assad who is bombing villages in Syria. This is
the Assad who is ordering teenagers tortured and, frankly, is
engaged in murdering his populace.
The ancient city of Homs is now in ruins. Seventy thousand
Syrians are dead. A million refugees have spilled into
neighboring countries, destabilizing those countries. And there
are troubling reports that Assad may be moving to unleash
chemical weapons.
The U.S. has been generous in supporting suffering Syrians,
but perhaps naively so. Much of our humanitarian aid has been
funneled through the U.N. and through other international
organizations that are largely restricted to areas controlled
by the Syrian regime. Now, that is absurd.
Only recently has the U.S. begun to push food aid directly
to the Syrian opposition. That shift, frankly, should
accelerate and accelerate dramatically. I really wonder about
providing any humanitarian aid through the U.N. that ends up
going through the regime at all because it indirectly helps
Assad and, therefore, presumably prolongs the conflict and
prolongs the human suffering.
Syria is today a humanitarian nightmare. It's also a great
strategic challenge. At the end of the day, it might be an
opportunity for reform in society in Syria, but it's also an
opportunity with Assad gone because then Iran would lose a key
ally, one critical to its terrorist operations, including
against Israel. And that's why Iran and Hezbollah are massively
stepping up their support of the Assad regime providing a
lifeline of weapons and providing fighters on the ground. Much
of this weaponry, by the way, flows through Iraq, and that
can't continue without consequences.
Unfortunately, jihadist groups are gaining strength and
popularity in a portion of Syria. They've been able to convince
too many Syrians that they are on their side. Al-Nusra and
aligned radical groups fighting to remove Assad are also
preparing for the day after his fall. They are competing with
the civil society groups behind the free Syrian Army. Syrian
extremists are translating their battle success into authority
over society as a whole influencing courts, schools, and
mosques, but I should say that most of those extremists are
from outside Syria. This is something very vexing to civil
society in Syria who have shared with us their concerns about
the influx of these foreign fighters. Their concern is that
these extremists are making inroads.
To avoid such a hostile future Syria armed with chemical
weapons, we need to help better organize and empower the Syrian
opposition--those Syrians who began the revolt by chanting,
``Peaceful, peaceful.'' We have let them down, and let our
strategic interests down.
Some believe that it is time to provide arms to vetted
opposition groups. Others worry about a potentially lengthy and
deepening engagement and note that many weapons are already
flowing into Syria. But the British and French have come to
realize the biggest winner in the arms embargo has been Assad.
Everything should be considered, but the U.S. could have the
greatest impact through training, intelligence, and logistics.
It has been said that the U.S. has no good options in
Syria, and that's probably true. Stay away, as we mainly have,
and bad things are guaranteed to happen. Get more involved, as
some are calling for, and good things might happen. All of it
is incredibly unpredictable. The best we can do is know what we
can, realize what we can't, and make decisions as we must.
I'll now turn to Congressman Ted Deutch, who fills in for
Ranking Member Engel. Big shoes to fill today, especially given
Mr. Engel's efforts on Syria over many years, which has helped
move the administration to more actively consider the range of
U.S. options in recent weeks. Mr. Deutch.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you,
Ambassador Ford, Assistant Secretary Richard, Assistant
Administrator Lindborg for being with us today. And I'd also
like to take a moment to recognize my friend, the ranking
member Eliot Engel, who couldn't be here today as he is in
Israel for President Obama's visit, but he's long been one of
the most engage Members of Congress on Syria, and on this
conflict.
The uprising in Syria is about to enter its third year.
Over 70,000 Syrians have been killed, there are over 1 million
registered refugees, 2\1/2\ million internally displaced
persons.
Our partners in the region, Turkey and Jordan, are
sheltering nearly 200,000 and 400,000 refugees respectively.
International aid to refugees has been slow to reach countries
in need of support. In fact, of the $1\1/2\ billion of refugee
aid pledged at the Kuwait Donors Conference held in January,
only 20 percent has been distributed. We have to do more to
insure that our humanitarian aid is reaching those critical
populations.
We can no longer look at Syria as a self-contained
conflict. The implications on regional stability are too great.
As the fighting rages on, the potential for spillover into the
Golan Heights or into Lebanon is great. As 300,000 refugees
seek refuge in Lebanon, there are Hezbollah fighters on the
ground fighting alongside Assad's forces. Iranian arms flow
through Syria to Hezbollah.
Assad is Iran's closest ally. Iranian Revolutionary Guard
members are on the ground in Syria providing training to Syrian
forces and raising militias in Assad strongholds. The Iranian
regime is providing telecommunications equipment, arms, and
money to Assad. The collapse of the Assad regime would deal a
devastating blow to Iran and its ability to support Hezbollah
and other terrorist groups in the region.
I'm extremely concerned about reports that Iraq is turning
a blind eye to the Iranian's use of Iraqi airspace to transport
weapons to Assad. This inaction is simply unacceptable. In
fact, I'll be sending a letter to Prime Minister Maliki this
week urging him to immediately ground and inspect Iranian cargo
and civilian planes attempting to access Iraqi airspace.
For the sake of regional stability, we and our partners
must cooperate with urgency in order to bring this conflict to
an end. So, the obvious question remains what more should or
can we do?
Secretary Kerry's announcement of direct humanitarian aid
to the Opposition was a positive step. We need to engage with
the opposition. The people of Syria need to know that they have
the support of the United States.
We know that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are providing
substantial resources to the opposition. Our European allies
led by France and Great Britain are considering ways to get
around the EU arms embargo and provide lethal assistance to the
opposition.
The arguments for arming the opposition are compelling. It
could shift the balance of power and it provides the U.S.
influence with those who may eventually govern a new Syria, but
what are the chances of success if we don't provide assistance?
And is the potential outcome worse for U.S. security and
security in the region if we fail to act?
When Assad falls, and it is only a question of when, we
have to insure that our security interest will be protected.
This means a commitment from any new government that chemical
weapons will be secured and will be destroyed. So, as the
discussion inevitably shifts toward whether or not the U.S.
should provide lethal assistance to the opposition, it is our
responsibility to determine whether this can be done in a way
that insures that U.S. arms will not fall into the hands of
terrorist organizations.
Our ability to vet opposition groups could be seriously
improved if Syrian Opposition Coalition leaders can form a
strong chain of command, and can unite the various groups
fighting across the country.
I'm encouraged that the Syrian Opposition Coalition chose a
Prime Minister for its exile government yesterday, but time is
of the essence in translating this leadership to ground
operations.
There are difficult decisions that must be made in the days
and weeks ahead. Do we encourage the Syrian Opposition to
establish an alternative government on Syrian territory? Do we
continue to push for a U.N. Security Council resolution? Do we
provide military advisors and training? Do we provide direct
military assistance; and, if so, what kind? And, ultimately, is
it realistic to believe that Assad can be pushed to accept any
negotiated end to this conflict?
The unconfirmed use of chemical weapons makes this more
pressing. The use of chemical weapons by this regime would be
horrific, but 70,000 slaughtered Syrians is horrific. The
discussions that we have in this committee are interesting, but
the fact that this is hard cannot stop us from acting.
Ambassador Ford, you and your colleagues know better than
anyone, there are no easy answers. Inaction, however, simply if
not an option. I look forward to your testimony and I yield
back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Royce. Thank you, Mr. Deutch. We'll yield 3
minutes to the chairman of the Middle East Subcommittee, Ileana
Ros-Lehtinen.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for
holding this timely hearing as the 2-year anniversary of the
Syrian conflict just passed.
After years of violence and internal struggle, the fighting
in Syria continues, and the refugee crisis threatens the
stability of our allies in the region. With over 70,000 dead
and over 1 million refugees, the numbers continue to rise as
there is no clear end in sight.
What started as a popular uprising where Syrians took to
the streets in protest against the Assad regime's corruption,
human rights abuses and brutality has turned into a full-scale
sectarian conflict that pits the Assad regime against Islamists
who seek to establish an Islamic state in the wake of Assad's
removal.
The secular moderate elements have been forced to a
periphery, and their movement has been co-opted by the
extremists. That is why the United States must take and must
take with extreme caution any action that deals with opposition
forces in Syria.
While I respect the opinion of my colleagues, I sincerely
do not believe that it is time for the U.S. to arm the rebels.
Too many questions remain about who the rebels are, and with
whom they will swear allegiance. The unknown can be dangerous
and the vetting of the opposition is not enough when it comes
to providing lethal aid that could be used against our allies,
such as Israel, or even the United States in a post-Assad era.
I'm also deeply concerned about Assad's stockpile of WMDs
that were they to fall into the wrong hands could jeopardize
the entire Middle East region, as well as our own U.S. national
security. We must examine also those regimes that continue to
help Assad stay afloat.
Last week the Director of National Intelligence testified
that,
``North Korea's export of ballistic missiles and
associated materials to several countries, including
Iran and Syria, and its assistance to Syria's
construction of a nuclear reactor destroyed in 2007
illustrate the reach of its proliferation activities.''
To address this national security threat, Congressman Brad
Sherman and I introduced the Iran, North Korea, and Syria Non-
Proliferation Accountability Act, and this bipartisan bill
prohibits assistance to any government that has provided
assistance to Iran, North Korea, or Syria, or has failed to
prevent individuals or entities under its sovereignty from
aiding in the proliferation activities of those three states.
We welcome cosponsors to our legislation. Thank you so much,
Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Royce. Thank you. Let me introduce our panel here,
representatives from the State Department and the United States
Agency for International Development.
Ambassador Robert Ford is the American Ambassador to Syria.
In his 27-year Foreign Service tenure, he has served as
Ambassador to Algeria and as the Deputy Chief of Mission at the
U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.
Ms. Anne Richard serves as the Assistant Secretary for the
Bureau for Population Refugees and Migration at the State
Department. Prior to her appointment, Ms. Richard worked for
the International Rescue Committee, an agency committed to
refugees and internally displaced persons.
Nancy Lindborg is the Assistant Administrator for the
Bureau for Democracy Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance for
USAID. Before joining USAID, she was president of Mercy Corps.
So, we welcome all of our distinguished witnesses here
today, and without objection, the witnesses' full testimony,
your full prepared statements will be made part of the record.
Members may have 5 days to submit statements and questions for
the record. And to our witnesses, I'd just ask you to summarize
your testimony within those 5 minutes. We'll begin with
Ambassador Ford.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ROBERT S. FORD, AMERICAN AMBASSADOR
TO SYRIA
Ambassador Ford. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the
committee. Thank you very much for inviting me to come talk
with you today. I know our time is limited so I'm going to keep
my remarks quite brief.
As you noted, Mr. Chairman, what started out as a peaceful
demand for dignity and freedom has turned, instead, into a
devastating conflict with a horrific human toll. Syrians face a
new level of ruthlessness from the Assad regime, which is
raining Scud missiles down on residential neighborhoods,
bombing hospitals, bombing schools, and sending out its thugs
into streets to terrorize and arrest fellow citizens.
More than 70,000 Syrians now have died since the beginning
of this conflict, and the number is rising, especially as
fighting in Damascus and Southern Syria now is intensifying.
More than 1 million Syrians have left their homes in their
country to seek refuge in neighboring countries, a number which
could quadruple by the end of this year if the increase in
refugee flows continues. It's very striking that Jordan's
fourth largest city now is the Zaatari refugee camp.
We are working to alleviate the human suffering. The United
States is the largest bilateral humanitarian aid donor, and my
colleagues, Anne and Nancy, can tell you more about our
humanitarian assistance efforts. So, let me talk, instead,
about how this can end.
Beyond addressing humanitarian needs, the United States is
acting. The United States is helping Syrians who seek a
government that will respect the dignity and the rights of all
Syrians and that will foster, not threaten, stability in the
Middle East.
Since December 2012, the United States along with our
international partners have recognized the Syrian Opposition
Coalition as the legitimate representative of the Syrian
people. The Coalition has a diverse group of representatives
inside Syria as well as outside, and the Coalition is committed
to a democratic and inclusive government, free from the
influence of violent extremists. And now it needs help
providing basic services in liberated areas.
Secretary Kerry in Rome at the end of February announced a
new assistance package of $63 million to help the Syrian
Opposition Coalition, to help Syrians on the ground inside
Syria, and to provide food and medical supplies to the Supreme
Military Command of the Free Syrian Army, and to the Syrian
Opposition Council for those in need.
Our aid, along with that of our partners is very important,
especially to forestall the complete collapse of state
institutions. This is a point which Secretary Kerry has
emphasized repeatedly. But, ultimately, we perceive that a
negotiated political transition is the best long-term solution
to the Syrian crisis.
The Geneva Communique agreed upon by the permanent members
of the United Nations Security Council, Turkey, the Arab League
States calls for a transition governing body to be set up with
full executive powers, and this is important, formed on the
basis of mutual consent between the Opposition and the Syrian
regime. We cannot see how Bashar al-Assad and his circle who
long ago lost their legitimacy, and whom the Opposition will
never accept in a transition government, we cannot see how he
and his circle can play any role in that transition governing
body. He must step aside.
We need to get to negotiations to establish that transition
governing body, but it is not easy, and how are we to get
there? As Secretary Kerry has noted, we need to change Bashar
al-Assad's calculations because he still thinks he can win
militarily.
Therefore, we are working with our partners to strengthen
the Opposition and to change the balance on the ground to help
give the Opposition the leverage they need to negotiate and to
change Bashar's calculations.
Let me note here that the election of Ghassan Hitto as
Prime Minister for the Coalition is a step forward, and we look
forward to working with him and with the Opposition Coalition
President, Muaz al-Khatib in the weeks ahead. And let me also
say that we look forward to working with the Congress as we
seek to support the needs of the Syrian people in their
struggle to create a free, stable, and democratic Syria. Thank
you.
[The prepared statement of Ambassador Ford follows:]
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STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ANNE C. RICHARD, ASSISTANT
SECRETARY, BUREAU FOR POPULATION, REFUGEES, AND MIGRATION, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Ms. Richard. Good morning, Chairman Royce, Ranking Members,
and Mr. Deutch, and members of this committee. Thank you for
hosting this hearing today on the humanitarian crisis inside
Syria.
I am pleased to be able to appear before the committee with
my colleague, Ambassador Robert Ford, and USAID Assistant
Administrator, Nancy Lindborg. Our offices work closely
together to provide humanitarian aid to those affected by the
violence in Syria.
The 2-year anniversary of the Syria uprising coincides with
another dark milestone. Over 1 million refugees have fled
Syria. More troubling, half of that number arrived in the last
2 months.
I would like to share with you the approach the Bureau for
Population, Refugees, and Migration is taking to address the
crisis, and how that complements and reinforces what USAID
does. In my written testimony, I describe how the refugee
crisis is affecting the neighboring countries, and I won't go
into those details here, but invite questions from you on the
very different situations we have seen in Jordan, Lebanon,
Turkey, and Iraq.
Let me just say that we recognize the huge strain that the
influx of refugees is currently placing on host countries. It
is essential that neighboring countries continue to keep their
borders open for those refugees fleeing violence in Syria.
In every meeting with officials from these countries we
thank them for allowing refugees to cross and discuss ways to
help them uphold humanitarian principles while protecting their
own security, and preventing a spillover of violence.
The Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration works
closely with our colleagues at USAID, and together we lead the
U.S. Government's humanitarian response. Nancy Lindborg and I
have traveled often to the region, traveled together twice, and
on our most recent trip were also joined by Ambassador Ford in
Turkey prior to our participation at the January Kuwait Donors
Conference.
The State Department is helping to get as much humanitarian
aid as possible to Syria's conflict victims. We are providing
funding to the United Nations, the International Committee of
the Red Cross, and non-governmental organizations. These aid
agencies bring technical expertise and operational capacity to
respond to a crisis as large-scale as this. Of the nearly $385
million provided thus far, the State Department's contribution
total nearly $185 million and meet basic humanitarian needs
such as shelter, water, and health both inside Syria, and in
host countries.
The delivery of assistance is often undertaken at great
personal risk. In recent months, U.N. convoys have delivered
aid to Opposition-held areas in Syria where thousands are in
acute need of humanitarian help. Such movements are highly
dangerous.
Of course, people in need are not concentrated in one area
and can be found all around the shifting battle lines.
Humanitarian organizations provide aid in a neutral and
impartial manner. The United Nations is seeking to get access
to all communities in need on a regular basis. It is
unacceptable and a violation of humanitarian principles for the
Syrian regime to deny this access.
I should mention that the fighting has also endangered the
lives of Palestinians and Iraqi refugees who lived in Syria.
They, too, are caught up in this crisis and have been
displaced, or have fled the country.
I regret to tell you that even as the crisis explodes, the
international community is facing a resource problem. The
U.N.'s Regional Response Plan has thus far received only 21
percent of the funds it needs to operate for the first half of
2013. Other donors must quickly provide the funds that agencies
need to keep lifesaving operations going.
And even if the Assad regime falls soon, humanitarian aid
will likely continue. This is because of the widespread
destruction of Syria's infrastructure and predicted flows of
refugees that would continue to cross borders--likely in both
directions. Needs could extend into the long term.
I've got my work cut out for me in terms of convincing
other countries to give more, in setting the record straight
about the heroic efforts of aid workers inside Syria, in
pressing international aid agencies to do as much as they can,
wherever they can.
I am encouraging U.N. leaders to take on more risks and
push the envelope to get aid into those hard to access parts of
Syria where the needs are great. And we are formally requesting
that they plan for every conceivable contingency since this
crisis has already defied predictions about its likely scale
and scope.
We are asking neighboring countries to keep their borders
open despite political tensions and economic burdens within
their own countries, to work with us to insure international
aid reaches the Syrians, and to help us uphold international
standards in order to protect and aid refugees.
In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, my Bureau's primary concerns
are providing protection and assistance to those who have fled
the violence. The State Department's overall goal, of course,
is a return of peace and stability to Syria, and to one day see
the refugees return home. And I'll be happy to answer your
questions at the appropriate time.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Richard follows:]
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STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE NANCY E. LINDBORG, ASSISTANT
ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR DEMOCRACY, CONFLICT AND HUMANITARIAN
ASSISTANCE, UNITED STATES AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Lindborg. Chairman Royce, members of the committee,
thank you very much for having us here today.
We are 2 years into this conflict, and we are in the midst
of a grim and escalating humanitarian crisis. We've heard the
grim statistics; behind each of these statistics are profound
stories of loss and particular impact on the women and children
who are always the most affected by conflict.
We heard these stories in January when the three of us
traveled to the region, and it really hits home how profoundly
brutal this war is when you stand at the border of Syria and
Jordan at night and literally watch thousands of families walk
across that border, mainly women and children.
I want to just cover a few key points today. First, our
humanitarian mandate is one of the most important expressions
of who we are as Americans, and the U.S. Government is helping
those in need throughout Syria. Since the conflict began 2
years ago, our aid has been a lifeline to more than 2.4 million
people, including those in areas affected by the worst
violence, in Idlib, in Aleppo, in Daraa.
We are working through all channels, through the United
States, international organizations, NGOs, local Syrian groups
and networks to reach all who are in need throughout Syria. We
are working closely with the Syrian Opposition Coalition's
Assistance Coordination Unit or ACU, which is now playing a
vital role in coordinating international aid going into Syria.
USAID has a full-time liaison working with the ACU to build
that relationship, to share information, coordinate the
assistance, and help the ACU have greater capacity to do more.
Our assistance is reaching all 14 Governorates and
approximately 60 percent of our aid is reaching those in
contested and Opposition-held areas. We've prioritized food,
basic medical, and trauma care relief supplies. In Aleppo
Governorate 50 bakeries were reopened with enough flour from
USAID to bake daily bread for 210,000, and working with a cadre
of very brave doctors, mainly Syrians, we're supporting 144
hospitals, health clinics, and mobile units who are providing
essential care, and especially looking at the needs of women
and children who are affected by this conflict.
My second point is that all of this is not enough. The
growing crisis is outpacing the international response
capacity. We have a problem of access. The single greatest
factor limiting humanitarian aid is that we need more access
across battle lines; we need cross-border access. We are simply
not able to reach everyone in need.
There are not enough resources. Simply put, there is not
enough money to reach the scale of this need. We continue to
urge all countries to follow through on the generous
commitments they made at the Pledging Conference in Kuwait in
late January. It is imperative for all countries to step
forward to share the burden. We invite you to add your voices
to that call.
Security is a constant concern. Every day I get reports of
humanitarian aid workers who have been kidnapped, targeted, and
clinics and bakeries bombed. Just last month, three USAID-
funded medical clinics were bombarded, one was destroyed by a
mortar shell, 10 people were killed. So, to protect our
humanitarian partners, to insure the aid can continue and reach
those in need, we are not branding much of our assistance,
which goes to my third point.
We are working hard to insure that the Syrian people know
the United States is the largest donor, and that the American
people are standing by them in this hour of need. We're working
with our partners to find ways to safely and selectively brand,
when they can, in one of the most dangerous and complex
humanitarian environments on earth right now. They are engaging
intensively with local leaders at every level to make sure they
understand where the aid is coming from. We're amplifying our
support through official visits to the region, intensive
regional media engagement, and making a full government-wide
push to communicate directly to the Syrians. This hearing today
is a wonderful opportunity to further that message. So, again,
our thanks.
My fourth and final point is that in addition to
humanitarian assistance, as Ambassador Ford has detailed, the
U.S. is investing in Syria's transition to help the Syrian
Opposition deliver. We recognize they need to deliver on
meeting Syrian needs now, so we are working with them through
offices like the Office of Transition Initiatives to identify
priority projects both immediate and longer term that can help
the Syrians.
Our continued assistance and support for the Syrian people
is a vital investment in the stability of a region that's at
the heart of our U.S. national security interests, and our
humanitarian help is a crucial expression of our American
values and our solidarity with the Syrians at this tragic time.
We know our humanitarian assistance will not end the
bloodshed but it is saving millions of lives, and preventing a
tragic situation from becoming worse. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lindborg follows:]
----------
Chairman Royce. Thank you very much, Ms. Lindborg.
I want to ask a question of Ambassador Ford, and it goes to
the Director of National Intelligence's comments here to
Congress quite recently. He said, ``An increasingly beleaguered
Syrian regime might be prepared to use chemical weapons against
the Syrian people.''
I'd note that, you know, many of us doubt that the Syrian
Government would risk triggering foreign interference by
deploying chemical weapons, but there are reports yesterday of
chemical weapons use, as you have seen. And I was going to ask
you, Ambassador, what could you tell us on that?
Ambassador Ford. Mr. Chairman, so far we have no evidence
to substantiate the reports that chemical weapons were used
yesterday, but I want to underline that we are looking very
carefully at these reports. We are consulting with partners in
the region and in the international community.
More broadly, we have been very clear from the beginning
about our concern that as the Assad regime's military situation
deteriorates, and it becomes as the Director of National
Intelligence said, it becomes ever more beleaguered, that it
might be tempted to use chemical weapons. And the President has
been very clear in saying that if Assad and those under his
command make the mistake of using chemical weapons, or if they
fail to meet their obligation to secure them, then there will
be consequences, and they will be held accountable.
Chairman Royce. What would those consequences be,
Ambassador?
Ambassador Ford. Mr. Chairman, in a hearing like this, I
absolutely do not want to go into hypotheticals. I do want to
underline that we take these reports and these possibilities
very seriously, and we are using all of our available means to
determine exactly what has happened.
Chairman Royce. Let me raise another point, and that is to
the transfer of weapons going through Iraq, either over
airspace, or by land into Syria. Last week we had a report in
Reuters that the Iranian regime was increasing its assistance
to the Assad regime. And, clearly, the observation has been
that this is the lifeline. It's not just the foreign fighters,
but it's also the munitions that are being flown in, and it's
being flown in by civilian aircraft. Personnel are flying in,
by the way, through airspace, as well as the weapons, so we see
that, we see at the same time Hezbollah on the ground now in
Syria.
This has been raised, as I understand it, several times
with the government in Iraq, but still the government there is
ramping this up. If we really grasped the strategic opportunity
here, it seems like one of the easiest things we could do would
be to lean on the Iraqis and get this process halted.
So, I was going to ask, how hard has the administration
weighed in with the Iraqis? What has been tried to get them to
cease and desist? And how might Congress help make this job a
little easier for the administration, if that's what's
necessary here?
Ambassador Ford. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that.
A couple of things I'd like to note first. The Iranian
relationship to the Bashar al-Assad regime is not new, but as
you noted, their assistance to the regime in this conflict has
grown substantially.
I could just cite, for example, that the Iranian
Revolutionary Guard Corps lost a general in Syria. And they
have lost other personnel, as well. And, of course, I don't
want to fail to mention that Lebanese Hezbollah is also playing
a very pernicious role. And there are even reports we are
seeing now, Mr. Chairman, of Iraqi Shia extremists going to
places like the Sayyida Zainab neighborhood of Damascus, and
even up to Homs. So, this is a serious problem, and it is
absolutely prolonging the conflict.
We have raised on multiple occasions with Iraqi officials,
and I have done so myself when I visited Baghdad at the end of
last year. We had a senior Iraqi official here in Washington 2
weeks ago, and we raise it during visits here in Washington,
and as well out in Baghdad. We will keep pressing the Iraqis.
We want the Iraqi Government to understand that it has no
interest in having an extremist government in Syria, and the
longer the conflict continues, the greater the influence of
extremists on the ground. Iraq should be working with us to get
to that negotiated settlement that I talked about.
Chairman Royce. You know, it seems to me that with our
capacity to put pressure on other governments with respect to
trying to bring change in Syria, we are certainly missing an
opportunity here given that the flow of these fighters are over
Iraqi territory, and they are not assisting. We're missing the
opportunity in terms of a direct conversation about the
security assistance we've provided, and the means whereby we
could frankly force Iraq to at least be part of the solution,
rather than part of the problem here.
Again, can you think of anything definitive that has been
shared with the Iraqis on that front?
Ambassador Ford. Mr. Chairman, let me assure you we have
had very direct conversations with the Iraqis. I have, our
Ambassador in Baghdad, Stephen Beecroft, has, and officials
here in Washington, the White House and the State Department
have. As I mentioned, we had a senior official here from
Baghdad the week before last, and we have been very direct with
them about the importance of not allowing Iran to exploit the
crisis in Syria, and how it is not helpful to Iraqi interests,
nor the region's interests.
Chairman Royce. Thank you. Mr. Deutch.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll just follow-up on
this line of questions.
You've pressed the Iraqis, you've been direct with the
Iraqis. The fact is that the transfer of Iranian arms is
subject to U.N. embargo. There is so much at stake here. Let me
try this a different way.
What specific leverage might the United States employ in
those direct discussions that are taking place with the Iraqis?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I don't want to go into great
detail here about our diplomatic discussions with the Iraqis,
but you mentioned the arms embargo and the United Nations
resolution, and we have discussed that with the Iraqis.
In a sense, in the end what matters is that the Government
of Iraq understand that its own interest is going to be best
served not by facilitating Iranian efforts to prolong the
crisis in Syria, but rather in bringing about a transitional
government that would have good relations with the government
in Iraq.
Mr. Deutch. Understanding by the Iraqi Government would be
helpful. Action by the Iraqi Government is what's necessary to
insure that that actually takes place.
I'd just like to focus on the two kinds of aid that are
widely discussed. One is, obviously, military.
Ambassador Ford, there's a difference of opinion here on
Capitol Hill about whether or not to provide direct military
assistance to the Opposition. The argument is made that it's
really hard to know where these weapons are going, that they
might wind up in the wrong hands, and that as we assess this,
it's just too difficult for us, ultimately, to be able to
decide how to get this into the right Opposition group's hands.
Do you agree with that, and the fact that it's hard? Does
70,000 now dead Syrians, does that make it easier for us to
assess the possibility of doing this?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, first let me say that all of
us working on the Syrian issue are incredibly saddened by the
human toll in Syria. I was there, and I visited the people in
Hama, and they were certainly peaceful. What's happened to them
is atrocious; what's happened to other Syrians is atrocious.
With respect to direct military assistance, our policy now
is not to provide military assistance to the Supreme Military
Council and the Free Syrian Army. We do regularly review this,
be very clear about that, but our policy is not now to provide
such assistance. We are, above all, focused in our efforts in
convincing both sides of the importance of a political solution
and getting them to that negotiated political deal.
We have taken a major step in terms of our relations with
the Supreme Military Command of the Free Syrian Army by now for
the first time providing food and medical assistance to it for
those in Syria in need, but we are not providing direct
military assistance.
Mr. Deutch. Mr. Ambassador, I understand that, and I'm not
suggesting an immediate change. I'm suggesting that this is an
important conversation for us to have, and it needs to take
place right now.
I'm asking if you agree that it is too difficult for us to
identify who should receive those arms if the policy were to
change.
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, as we review whether or not
to provide direct military assistance, we do it within the
context of trying to decide if it would help us get to the
political settlement that we think is the only way to get to
the long-term crisis. So, the question you asked is one
question, but it is not the only question that we take into
consideration.
Mr. Deutch. I appreciate that. Let me just turn to Ms.
Lindborg for a second in my remaining time.
Ms. Lindborg, I want to thank you. I want to thank you for
the work that you do. I want to thank you for the work that
USAID does.
At the end of your testimony, you commented this hearing is
a wonderful opportunity for you to further your message. I hope
that people will focus on your message. I hope that in all of
the discussions that take place here about whether or not to
provide military assistance, and working with the Opposition,
and doing all the things that we need to, to ultimately push
Assad out, that there is a very clear understanding about the
work that you and the agency does every single day, the work
that you do every day to address this humanitarian crisis. And,
most importantly, your efforts as you describe them, to make
sure that the Syrian people understand that even as we have all
of these other discussions, that the United States of America
is committed to working to address this humanitarian crisis in
a very serious, and in a very concerted way.
I want to pass on my sincere thanks, and I hope that you
and the work gets the attention that it deserves perhaps as a
result of this hearing. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Royce. Thank you. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And
thank you to all of the panelists.
I wanted to ask three questions, first on the rebels, who
are these guys? WMD, and thirdly, on the countries that are
aiding Assad, Russia, Iran, North Korea among them. On the
rebels, the Syrian rebels lack a cohesive command and control
structure, and they continue to expand their operations, but to
what end? Ambassador Ford, do you believe that there's great
cohesion in the Opposition forces? And, if so, will that stick.
In the last few months, some Syrian rebels have been
designated as foreign terrorist organizations linked to al-
Qaeda. They've captured and detained U.N. peacekeepers after
later being released, so the U.S. must take necessary
precautions to conduct proper oversight and due diligence
regarding any aid to these rebels.
Can you give us more information about the Opposition?
They're not just Syrian Nationals, as you point out. You said
that they're foreign fighters who also have Islamic militants
from neighboring countries, so who will govern in a post-Assad
Syria?
And on weapons of mass destruction, are the reports correct
that the Syrian regime may possess up to 50 tons of weapons-
grade nuclear materials in its stockpile? And to inspect, if
those reports are true, will the U.S. call for an emergency
meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency to discuss
this? And if Assad does not grant IAEA inspectors immediate
access to all nuclear facilities and stockpiles so that they
can be protected and sealed, will the U.S. impose immediate
comprehensive and painful sanctions? Will we do so acting with
the European Union? Will we do so only through the U.N.
Security Council?
And, lastly, on the countries that are aiding the brutality
of Assad's regime, these countries continue to provide military
assistance, weaponry. These are North Korea, Russia, Iran, and
they seek to further the illegal weapons program and supporting
these foreign terrorist organizations.
What can we do to hold these regimes accountable for
supplying the Syrian regime with arms, helicopters, military
equipment during this human rights crisis? In light of Russia's
policy in Syria, I believe that the Obama administration's
string of concessions to Moscow must stop, and I wanted to hear
your thoughts on the rebels, WMD, and what will we do with
countries that are helping Syria?
Ambassador Ford. With respect to the rebels and who they
are, I divide them into two categories. There's a political
opposition, and there is a military opposition. Both are not
entirely unified; although, on the political side the Coalition
headed by Sheik Muaz al-Khatib, the Coalition that chose
Ghassan Hitto yesterday as Prime Minister, are becoming more
and more unified. And they have representatives from both
inside the country, as well as outside the country.
On the armed opposition side, they have established a
Supreme Military Command headed by a man named General Salim
Idris, whom I have met several times. He has said to us and to
others that he will respect a political deal worked out by the
political opposition; that is to say, he does not perceive that
the Free Syrian Army should have a political role in the future
of Syria.
To be very frank, Congresswoman, that is one of the reasons
we decided to provide direct food and medical assistance to
Idris and his command to help him within the context of the
broader Syrian opposition.
Let me add, also, with respect to your question on weapons
of mass destruction, even when I went out as an Ambassador
several years ago, this was a huge issue for us. And it has, if
anything, become even more of a concern given our worries about
the regime in its desperate military situation using chemical
weapons. So, let me assure you, we continue to talk regularly
to the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna. We
continue to urge that the Syrian regime be completely
transparent with the IAEA about what it has been doing with
respect to its nuclear program.
With respect to access, we have long wanted that. We argued
for it consistently. I think now with the fighting in the area,
we would have to figure out if the IAEA itself would want to
go.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. And you can address that at
another time, the other question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
the time. Thank you, Ambassador.
Chairman Royce. Thank you. We'll go to David Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
convening this important hearing. Thank you to the witnesses
for your testimony.
I have two questions, one for Ambassador Ford. Secretary
Kerry has said that the policy of the United States is to
change Assad's calculations so that he will cease the killing,
and agree to some negotiations, and some cease fire. And I'd
like your assessment as to whether or not there's any evidence
that Assad has begun to change his calculation in that
direction, and whether or not there is a set of individuals
that the Opposition might be prepared to negotiate with, and
whether the Geneva Framework makes any sense, or is still
something that has some prospect for resolution?
And the second area, I also want to thank Ms. Lindborg for
the work you and your agency are doing, as Ranking Member
Deutch referred to. I really hope that people understand the
value of it, and thank you for your testimony.
I am particularly interested if you would share with us
some of the work that's being done to protect Syrian women and
girls. There have been reports both from a recent U.N. report,
and the general media about the really devastating consequences
of this conflict on women and the rape of Syrian women who are
fleeing Syria to host countries where they're not finding any
better conditions, and incidences of rape, forced marriage, and
child marriages and the like. If you could share with us some
of the work that's being done to protect Syrian girls and
women, I'd be grateful. Ambassador Ford, we could start with
you.
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, with respect to changing
Bashar al-Assad's calculations, I'm not a psychiatrist, and I
have seen his press statements where he said he would never
leave Syria. We've seen that. Maybe he's telling the truth. I
don't know.
We also know, Congressman, that the military balance is
turning against the regime. They lost a provincial capital at
the end of February, the regime's governor and other senior
officials were actually captured. They've lost control of the
border along Turkey and Iraq. There is heavy fighting now in
Damascus, itself. In fact, we've been getting messages from
Syrians inside Syria and Damascus that there was heavy fighting
right up close to where the President lives. Certainly, it
would have been rattling his windows.
Will he then decide to negotiate and to save himself? We
want a negotiated political deal as the best means to get a
sustainable new government. That has to be, in a sense, agreed
upon by the different sides to the conflict. That does not mean
we will ask the Supreme Military Command to implement a cease
fire, but we would like to see negotiations.
I was struck that the regime has now offered to send a
delegation headed by the Syrian Prime Minister, but I don't
know if that is serious, and it has to be to discuss not a
Bashar al-Assad reform program, but rather the Geneva Framework
for a transition government in which Assad has no part.
Ms. Lindborg. Congressman, thank you very much for your
question. I will start by just saying when I was there in
January, I met with a group of young activists, including young
women who have now had to give up their dreams of being lawyers
and finishing their college education.
On International Women's Day, I got a series of text
messages from them to promote a campaign they had organized
called ``I am SHE,'' that we had supported, very much focused
on bringing to attention the special needs of women in
conflict. This is an issue we take seriously globally.
In Syria, through the hospitals that we're supporting,
we've also brought in rape kits, and counselors. It is in the
immediate aftermath of a sexual assault that it's so important
to get treatment. We are also working with partners to provide
special counseling for the many, many children who are affected
by this, who are traumatized now.
This has impact for the rest of your life--to go through
this. Many children are being caught in the crossfire, as are
the women, and it is brutal.
And my colleague, Anne, might want to say something about
the particular plight of women in refugee camps.
Ms. Richard. We are working with UNHCR in Jordan, and UNFPA
in Turkey to insure that aid is provided to women and girls who
have suffered as they fled from Syria. We've heard very
credible reports that one of the things they're fleeing from is
the threat or actual rape.
In the Zaatari refugee camp, we are giving funding to NGOs
so that they can meet the needs of Syrian women and children.
So, we take the issue very, very seriously, and thank you for
raising it.
Chairman Royce. We'll go now to Mr. Steve Chabot.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There was an article which appeared in, I believe, National
Review recently. It was entitled, ``The Silent Exodus of
Syria's Christians.'' And it started out 2 million or so, and
it's to some degree similar to Iraq when there was the war
taking place there. Christians were being targeted, murder,
kidnapping, rape, you name it, all kinds of horrific things
happening. And, of course, there's been a relationship to some
degree between the regime and some in the Christian community,
as well, so that clearly exists, and is somewhat of a
complicating factor, as well.
There are particular threat from Islamic groups, and my
question would be what has the administration been doing about
that, what should we be doing? One quote in the article was,
``The ethno religious cleansing taking place could soon see
Syria emptied of Christians,'' for example. And, apparently, it
hasn't been getting a tremendous amount of coverage in the
media overall compared to a lot of other things. Ms. Lindborg,
would you want to touch on that particular issue?
Ms. Lindborg. Yes. Thank you for your question. I think
this underscores the fragmentation that's happening in Syria,
and the ways in which so many particular groups are being
targeted and threatened.
We provide humanitarian assistance on the basis of need
regardless of who you are. We are seeking to get into all the
14 Governorates. Many of the Christian communities are
concentrated in what's called the Christian Valley between Homs
and Tartus, and Aleppo, and we are definitely insuring that
assistance is getting there through our partners, as well as in
a few pockets in the suburbs of Damascus.
This is something that we're definitely watching along with
all the groups that are particularly vulnerable.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. Either one of the other witnesses
want to touch on this? Ambassador?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, a couple of things I would
like to emphasize. First, I was in Iraq for almost 5 years, and
I saw what happened to the Iraqi Christian community, and it
was terrible. Even now, they're still often under threat, those
who remain. So, I'm very sensitive to that. The administration
is very, very sensitive to that.
A couple of things I just want to highlight. First, we are
deeply concerned about the threat of Islamist extremists within
the Syrian Opposition. That is why the administration
designated the al-Nusra Front in December 2012 as an affiliate
of the al-Qaeda organization in Iraq. And we did that
specifically to warn others in the Syrian Opposition of the
risks that they take by working with al-Nusra Front.
And I'm encouraged, Congressman, that there have been
instances now where other Syrians who want a tolerant society,
other Syrians who believe that all Syrians should be treated
equally without respect to their religion or their ethnicity,
are starting to push back in some instances against al-Nusra on
the ground. But there is a great deal of concern.
Second thing, I just want to assure you, I mentioned I have
met people from the Free Syrian Army, from the Supreme Military
Command, and we have highlighted the worries of minority
groups, Alawites and Christians, not that we are against the
Sunni Majority of Syria, we are not, but the minorities are
nervous, and their rights must be protected and respected. And
we hear good things from them. And I can tell you, for example,
that they have met Christian leaders from some of the
communities in Syria, and have told us afterwards that their
meetings were positive. We have to keep pushing in that
direction.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. In the short time I have left, if
you could just, Mr. Ambassador, touch on the chemical weapons
issues. The administration's called it a red line, and there
have been reports, you know, as recently in the last 24 hours
about what's actually happening on the ground, whether they
have been used, whether they will be used. If you could just
talk about what the administration is doing to prevent the
transfer of these weapons to groups like Hezbollah, and others?
Thank you.
Ambassador Ford. We view this issue with extreme
seriousness, Congressman. It is incredibly important to us, so
we approach it on several fronts.
Right now, we are trying to verify the reports that we have
seen recently about the use. There are reports of their being
used both in the North, and in the Damascus suburbs, the
Eastern suburbs of Damascus. So, we're trying to verify those
reports with our means. We're talking to our partners about
what they have been able to find out.
In addition, we have had regular discussions with other
countries that have interests in Syria, who have influence with
the Syrians to (a) urge that the Syrian regime not use these
weapons and, instead, maintain tight control over them. And (b)
to pass the warning that there would be consequences, and there
would be accountability for those members of the regime that
would ever think of using these things and would deploy them.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Royce. We'll go now to Mr. Albio Sires.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ambassador, I listen and I read all the comments
regarding Syria, and I always read about these key words, that
we want to negotiate, we want to talk, we want a political
solution, dialogue is the best way to go.
My concern is that this man is a criminal now, what he's
done to his people. So, if you come to a solution where there's
dialogue, where somehow he says all right, let's talk,
somewhere along the line he has to be held responsible for what
he's done to his people, I mean, brought to court. So, I hope
that in this idea of dialogue and conversation, and those key
words that I read all the time on all these articles, that
somewhere along the line he is held responsible for the
criminal act that he's portrayed on his people.
Ambassador Ford. Several things on that, Congressman.
First, we don't say dialogue because for us this is not about
having a conversation between the Opposition and the regime.
This is about negotiating----
Mr. Sires. Well, it's the same thing.
Ambassador Ford. To me, they're very different meanings,
and they matter here.
Mr. Sires. Well, we've got to negotiate him into jail.
Ambassador Ford. They matter here because we're talking
about him stepping down, not dialoguing but him stepping down,
and setting up a new transition governing body.
Now, with respect to accountability, we have said he should
be held accountable, and that members of his regime with
buckets of blood on their hands also should be held
accountable. We are actually helping train Syrian investigators
to prepare dossiers. We are showing them--this is ongoing
activity that we are doing, the State Department's Democracy
and Human Rights Bureau is undertaking this along with Stephen
Rapp, our Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes. We are training
Syrian investigators so that they can prepare dossiers to be
used at an eventual court proceeding. The Syrians, themselves,
ultimately will have to decide by what mechanisms they will
hold people accountable. That can't be something that we
dictate to them. But we are anxious to provide them the
capability to pursue people in this way.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Can you talk a little bit about the
role of Russia? They seem to be coy. I know they're supportive
and, you know, yesterday I think the Ambassador said that the
people who first used chemical were the rebels. Can you talk a
little bit about the usual coyness?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, we saw the Russian statement
that the rebels, Free Syrian Army, yesterday used chemical
weapons. I just want to say we have no evidence to corroborate
that, and we're very skeptical of it. We'll look at it, but our
initial impression is we're very skeptical.
With respect to the Russian position, they say that they
are not attached to Bashar al-Assad, and they say they would
accept a transition governing body. They signed up to the
Geneva Framework that I have talked about. However, we would
like Russia to go far, far beyond that.
We would like Russia, first of all, to stop delivering arms
systems to the Syrian Government. And this is an ongoing
conversation that we have with them. We would also like the
Russians to join the rest of the international community in the
very tight economic sanctions regime which we have developed
with the Europeans, with countries in the Middle East, with the
Japanese and other countries. We would welcome the Russians
joining that, all with the goal of getting to a sustainable
political solution.
Mr. Sires. And can you talk about the issue of branding a
little bit? It seems that we can't put our name on some of the
food or whatever material that we deliver to Syria for various
concerns. How would they know that we are the ones assisting
them?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman----
Mr. Sires. My----
Ambassador Ford. Sorry.
Mr. Sires. No, go ahead.
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I'm happy to share a little
bit. I would encourage Assistant Administrator Lindborg to talk
about this since it's more her people and her programs. But we
understand the utility of Syrians seeing $385 million in
American assistance going in to help Syrians in need. We are
the largest bilateral donor. And there are some places where we
have been able to do branding, but in other places there are
security issues. Nancy, do you want to say more?
Ms. Lindborg. Yes, I would just simply add that we evaluate
this every day and look at every opportunity to see where we
can brand safely. Ultimately, we need to provide assistance in
a way that insures that it gets to the people, and that we are
able to save lives in this really, really difficult crisis.
If we do so in a way that further endangers the aid
workers, it threatens not only our very brave colleagues, but
it also will shut down the overall enterprise. So, it's a
delicate balance, and as a result, we're also looking at all
the other ways to get the word out, all the other ways to
communicate directly to the Syrian people that the American
people are standing with them.
Mr. Sires. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Royce. Adam Kinzinger.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all
for coming and being here.
Mr. Ambassador, I understand that you are not the
President, but you've probably been in some conversations that
I haven't. One of the reasons this hearing is so important is
because I can kind of take you on a journey right now. I want
to ask you to go on that journey with me. This journey is
trying to figure out what our foreign policy is, because I've
had a very hard time doing that.
I've been stumped. I'm stumped on the answer in Syria, I'll
be honest. I don't know what the answer is, and part of the
reason is that we've waited so long to really do anything.
To an extent, it reminds me of how we were reactive in Iran
in 2009 when we saw a really good opportunity to support a
popular uprising against the regime. So, we find ourselves in a
situation now where I feel, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like
we're reacting to the situation. And I wonder, if we go back to
the beginning of this conflict, we go back to the initial
uprising against Assad, where you have Iran basically
supporting the Syrian regime on one end, and you have
theoretically Freedom Fighters on the other end.
Now, I understand that we didn't know at that time who the
rebels were, and there were some questions. But, at that time
you can pretty much assume that extremism did not have the
ability to organize to the great extent that they're probably
organized now, which gives us the concern in the Opposition on
what we have.
So at the beginning, and I'm asking you because you were
hopefully in these conversations, what were our reasons for not
supporting an uprising with lethal aid, or non-lethal aid
against a regime that is supported by Iran, and continues to
cause problems in the Middle East? And I'll ask you to keep it
short because I actually have a lot here I want to ask, so go
ahead.
Ambassador Ford. To be very brief, Congressman, I
personally don't agree that we waited so long, on the ground
there. We were helping democracy activists when I was in Syria
in 2011, and we were doing a lot to help.
Mr. Kinzinger. What was the reason for withholding lethal
aid at that time?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, for a long time, Syrians
themselves didn't want outside interference in their uprising,
what they called the revolution. For a long time, through 2011,
the Syrians themselves wanted their demonstrations to be
peaceful. They did not want foreign armed intervention. In
fact, they were bitterly criticizing Hezbollah and Iran for
their intervention.
Mr. Kinzinger. Respectfully, I understand that. I'm talking
about when it went to a shooting war. And again, as I'm saying
this, I am literally trying to figure this out because I don't
know the answer today. This is a difficult quandary.
Let me ask another question. When we talk about the red
line, and we talk about the use of chemical weapons, I know
this has been hammered especially by the chairman, but we're
going to find out what happened. It's just a matter of time.
We're going to find out if chemical weapons were used, and who
used them. I feel like we have a red line that is supposed to
be exactly that: A red line; a point you don't cross. I heard
what I assume the President was saying is that if you use
chemical weapons, that is the red line. Now, I hear that there
is a kind of a shifting red line to no, no, no, we're talking
about the transfer of chemical weapons, and not necessarily
using them against your own people. So, it seems more like a
cyan line, or a yellow line.
I think in my mind, a red line is to make it very clear; if
you use chemical weapons against your own people, we will
devastate your ability to use chemical weapons. The result of
that will be a deep, deep thinking about whether we'll use
chemical weapons against our own people, because we know our
ability to do so will be devastated.
Let me ask you just one or two more questions. How does
Russia and Iran specifically see our policy in Syria? Are they
frightened of our involvement of Syria because it will affect
their interest, or are they happy with our situation in Syria
right now, and the approach we're taking, Mr. Ambassador?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I'm not the spokesman for the
Russian or Iranian Foreign Ministry----
Mr. Kinzinger. Well, you probably have a gut feeling.
Ambassador Ford. Let me just say a couple of things. First,
the very nature of the Iranian actions in Syria now suggest to
me that they're very nervous about the Assad regime's long-term
prospects. They are plussing up their assistance, they're
plussing up their people on the ground, they're plussing up
what they're sending in. That doesn't sound like a confident
stance, to me. That sounds like they're nervous, and they ought
to be nervous.
I mentioned before about how the military balance has
shifted strongly against the regime in a war of attrition.
Mr. Kinzinger. But, is it a nervousness because of the
situation on the ground, or because of specifically what we're
doing? I'm asking, are we helping that nervousness, or are we
just kind of not?
Ambassador Ford. Absolutely, we help that nervousness,
Congressman. Let me give you an example. You know, a lot of
this war is being fought on video.
Mr. Kinzinger. Right.
Ambassador Ford. And much of the equipment that provides
the YouTube videos that you and I see, that actually comes from
us.
Mr. Kinzinger. Good.
Ambassador Ford. We are the ones that are helping the
Opposition both get information from the outside world through
the internet, and also to upload stuff back to the rest of
planet Earth.
For example, the chairman in his opening remarks talked
about the devastation to the City of Homs.
Mr. Kinzinger. Right.
Ambassador Ford. We have worked very closely with the Homs
Provincial Revolution Council to make sure they can stay in
touch with planet Earth.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you. And again, I do appreciate your
service. One thing that I want to add though, as I close, is
that I hope that this is not an extension of what was made
famous a few years ago, the lead from behind strategy. I think
when America retreats from the world, chaos ensues. So, I hope
this is not an extension of that. I'm not saying it is, but
that's something I wanted to say.
Thank you all for your service, and I yield back.
Chairman Royce. Bradley Schneider.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to
the witnesses for joining us here today.
Ambassador Ford, I'll to you again, initially. As you
stated, our goals currently are to see the Assad regime leave
as soon as possible, to have a negotiated settlement, retaining
Syria's national unity, and fostering an emergence of a new
Syrian Government that enhances, rather than lessens the
security within Syria and around the region.
As we look at that, and we're developing our strategy, what
events, trends, or other developments might be indications that
our desired or stated objectives aren't achievable? And if we
start to see those, what are our best alternatives if national
unity isn't achievable?
Ambassador Ford. We worry, Congressman, about the collapse
of the state. And I don't mean the government of Bashar al-
Assad, we think he's going to go in any case sooner or later,
but collapse of the state institutions. We have seen that in
other places, including in the Middle East, and we do not want
to see the Syrian Government disappear. The institutions of
state, the judiciary, a police force that is able to maintain
law and order, banks, financial systems, et cetera, so
infrastructure, electricity.
Where we see that degrading further, that would be a sign
that things are going even worse, will create more refugee
flows, will help extremists. And that is why we are increasing
our assistance to these areas which have been liberated from
government control, and where state institutions, frankly, are
failing. So, we are directly now helping local administrative
councils, which have been set up by the Syrian revolution.
We will work very closely with Prime Minister Ghassan Hitto
to funnel assistance into these local councils so that they can
prevent the full collapse of state institutions. I think that
is our biggest concern in terms of maintaining unity, and
keeping Syria from being an operating base for terrorists,
extremists, helping maintain security. That's the main thing.
Mr. Schneider. But if unity is not achieved, or achievable,
what is our best alternative?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I think today, March 20th, we
can get to a solution that maintains the unity of Syria. The
different groups in Syria represented in this Coalition that I
talked about all want to maintain Syria's unity, even the
people, the foot soldiers of Bashar al-Assad's ruthless army
are not calling for the division of the country. I don't think
Syrians are looking to divide their state. So, we have to
figure out a way to get a negotiated agreement where everyone
feels safe within a unified Syria.
It could be that the government is going to look entirely
different from how this last government did. It certainly has
to with respect to its treatment of citizens in terms of
dignity and respect for human rights. But I can imagine lots of
political scenarios where you can work out deals between the
groups.
Mr. Schneider. And taking it a little more regionally, as
was mentioned before, we have refugees, I'm looking to the
whole panel now, refugees in Turkey, 200,000, 400,000,
overwhelming in Jordan, we're seeing in Lebanon. Long-term this
becomes not just a financial burden, but a political risk to
these countries in the region, and the region as a whole.
What do we need to make sure, and how can Congress help
make sure that we do everything necessary so that that does not
happen?
Ms. Richard. Thank you for asking, Congressman. In our
conversations with these neighboring countries, they have
explained to us the strains and the burdens that this is
putting on their societies. There are economic strains, and
they are also sometimes tensions between the groups in those
countries, like in Lebanon, for example. We were talking before
about Christians, I was thinking about how Christians and
Muslims live together in Lebanon, but when you have these extra
burdens put on a country, it can really provoke tensions among
different communities.
So, what Congress can do is continue to provide assistance
so that we can support these countries. In some cases, such as
Jordan, we have a bilateral assistance relationship. In the
case of Lebanon, we really prefer to work through international
organizations. And even in Turkey can do discreet things by
providing assistance through non-governmental organizations, or
have technical experts from the international organizations
provide assistance, even though the Turks are very much in the
lead of their own camps.
I realize that asking for more money at this current time
and this environment on Capitol Hill, I don't have to tell you
that that sort of goes against the grain, but that is the key
way that we can convert our good intentions to real live aid,
and make a difference in people's lives on the ground.
Mr. Schneider. If there's time.
Ms. Lindborg. Well, I will just add that I detail out in my
testimony some of the ways in which we're working to help the
communities who are stretched and strained by the influx of
refugees, and working directly with the governments of these
countries to provide additional support. So, it's an important
question, and one that we're deeply focused on.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you.
Chairman Royce. Mr. Scott Perry.
Mr. Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you folks on
the panel for your attendance and your testimony. Probably most
of my questions will be addressed to Ambassador Ford. Thank
you, sir.
I'm wondering regarding the red line, and I know we've kind
of kicked this horse a bit, but I want to get some specifics,
if I could, if you know them. What are the possible
consequences? I share your skepticism of the current reports,
but let's say that they are true, or let's say they become true
at some point, what are the ranges of possible consequences
that the American people can expect from the administration as
a response?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I really do not want to
speculate here about hypothetical situations. What I do want to
underline is that the President has said there will be
consequences, and that we will seek strongly that the people
who use chemical weapons be held accountable. Exactly what
those consequences would do today, I cannot speculate on.
Mr. Perry. Have they been discussed? Have consequences been
discussed that you know of?
Ambassador Ford. I am very certain, Congressman, that they
have been discussed. But, again, I don't want to speculate on
what the hypothetical possibilities are. I just--I do not want
to go there. I do want to underline how seriously we take the
reports.
Mr. Perry. I appreciate that, but I think it is important
for the world to know, for Congress to know, for Americans to
know what we can expect to see, at what point, so we can have
that discussion, because if it happens, and when it happens, it
will be very quick, and we don't want to be in a position of
Monday morning quarter backing after-the-fact, and making sure
we got it right. I understand your reluctance to provide that
information, but I think it's important for the American people
to know.
And I'm not talking about hypothetical situations. I mean,
we have to have a plan, and we should know with the caveat that
there are certain security requirements, to know what those
plans are, what those possibilities are.
With that, do we know with any certainty what kind of WMDs,
if that's what we're discussing, whether it's sarin gas, or
whether it's choking agents, or blister--what are we talking
about? Do we know?
Ambassador Ford. Syria has, the Syrian Government has the
largest stocks of chemical weapons of any country in the
region, and it includes the things that you mentioned. So,
because we cannot yet state with certainty that chemical
weapons have been used in the last days, I cannot tell you what
happened.
I can tell you that we have a large team of people working
on it right now. And I understand your concerns about
explaining to the American people, but I think first we need to
understand what exactly has happened, if anything.
Mr. Perry. I would agree with you. However, right now we're
looking at the anniversary of Iraq, and a lot of folks are
questioning what happened there, and why did we do that, and
what did we get out of it? And it's topical because we don't
want to end up there again, and we should learn from those
mistakes. And right now I'm not sure that the American people
have the confidence of what the plan is.
Of course, having no clue what the plan is, we don't want
the current administration to make the mistakes of any of the
past administrations. With that, and with your characterization
of the stockpiles that Syria has, I think the American people,
and I think the world see two outcomes here.
I mean, Assad has very little impetus to do anything but
stay there. If he leaves willingly, he's going to be tried for
war crimes and spend his life in prison. I think that's a fait
accompli at this point. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I see.
So, I'm wondering what safeguards are being put in place
regarding cross-border material transportation of the things
that we've discussed?
Ambassador Ford. We understand the risk you're talking
about, Congressman, in terms of leakage of materials, which is
why we have underlined to the Syrian authorities, and to their
friends that these materials have to stay in their sites, and
they have to stay secure.
Mr. Perry. And let me just clarify, the Syrian authorities
you're talking about are the ones that are currently in power?
Ambassador Ford. Correct. But I would also say, I mentioned
that I have met General Idris, and we have also told him that
we would view their using these kinds of weapons also as
completely unacceptable.
Mr. Perry. But just one last question, Mr. Chairman, with
all due respect.
What safeguards--have you discussed any safeguards
regarding border control of these agents, other than telling
the current regime don't do anything with them, don't move
them. What are we doing proactively to make sure they don't end
up in the wrong hands, or on our shores, or affecting our
interests around the globe?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, they have the neighboring
states, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon. We have different
kinds of bilateral programs with Iraq, with Jordan, with
Lebanon. Certainly, with Turkey, again, we have a regular
conversation on the question of the Syrian chemical weapons
stock, and what is to be done about it. So, what I can tell you
here is that all of the countries are sensitive to the risks.
We are looking to be helpful with them to address those
risks, and each government is taking different responses
according to its differing needs.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen [presiding]. Thank you very much,
Ambassador. Thank you, sir. Mr. Faleomavaega.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to
thank the members of our panel for their testimonies this
morning.
I just wanted to ask Secretary Richard, with the depth of
your understanding of refugee issues, and in your capacity as
the Assistant Secretary, what is happening in Syria? Do you see
a similar pattern in terms of what took place also in Rwanda
and Darfur in terms of the crisis that we're facing in Syria
today? Are we dealing with the same situation that we found
ourselves in with Rwanda and Darfur?
Ms. Richard. The difference between Syria and Rwanda is
that Rwanda was carried out by large numbers of people using
very simple implements, machetes, and they set upon their
neighbors and they slaughtered them over a very quick period of
time.
In Syria, we see months and months going on that people are
being killed by their own government, and that they are being
killed from the sky. Some of the refugees we spoke to in Jordan
were talking about barrel bombs that would be dropped, so they
weren't killing face-to-face. The barrel bombs would come down,
explode, and take out large groups of people. The shrapnel
would go sideways, they would maim and injure children, the
elderly, ill people. And then, also, as Robert has discussed
with me, Scuds are now being used to just destroy whole city
blocks.
So, it's probably more efficient to use that kind of awful
weaponry from the sky. And the results then are the same: Lots,
and lots, and lots of innocent lives lost, and a very
completely senseless waste of life.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Ambassador Ford, you mentioned earlier
that our current policy is that no military assistance is to be
given to the Syrian Opposition forces. However, it's okay for
Russia, Iran, and even North Korea to continue to supply the
Syrian Assad's regime with all the military equipment, things
that they needed so that he can continue killing his own
people.
Do you see somewhat of a contradiction here in terms of the
U.S. just being an observer in all this, while the killing
continues because of countries like Russia and Iran?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman----
Mr. Faleomavaega. And, by the way, Iraq allows Iran
airspace to transfer so-called medical supplies, and I'm told
it's not. It's all military hardware that Assad needs to
continue his killing spree. Can you help us figure this out?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, our policy is not to give
military assistance. That is, actually, exactly factually
right. However, it is not factually right to say that the
United States thinks that it is okay for other countries to
provide assistance to the Assad regime.
I did say already that we have urged the Russians not to
send military equipment to the Assad regime. I have said
already that we've asked the Russians to join us and the rest
of the international community in putting pressure on the Assad
regime.
We, Congressman, have been at the forefront of countries
denouncing Iranian behavior in Syria. It was the United States
that first started talking about it publicly. And the same with
North Korea. We have had sanctions in place on Iran and North
Korea, as well as on the Syrian regime precisely because of
this kind of behavior which we find destabilizing not only in
Syria, but to the broader Middle East region.
Mr. Faleomavaega. To follow up on Chairman Chabot's
question on the chemical and biological weapons, I'm told, at
least according to reports in July of last year, that the
Syrian officials had given every assurance that the stockpiles
of the chemical weapons--primarily nerve gas and mustard gas--
are fully secured under the supervision of the military, and
will never be used unless Syria faces external aggression.
I'm sure you're quite familiar with that. Does that sound
like an invitation from the Assad regime? Just make my day, go
ahead and attack us and see what will happen. Does that seem to
be the danger that we face ourselves if this should ever take
place?
Ambassador Ford. We've studied those remarks very
carefully, Congressman. And you have hit exactly what concerns
us, is that as the military balance shifts steadily against the
regime, and it grows more beleaguered and more desperate, that
they will try some ruse and end up using them themselves. And
that is why we take the reports the last couple of days very
seriously, and we're trying to determine what's happened.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. Faleomavaega,
Ambassador. Mr. Weber is recognized.
Mr. Weber. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
I missed much of the hearing because I had another one I
had to be at, so forgive me if some of these questions are
redundant.
Ambassador, would you outline for me whether it's
Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, whether the external forces that are
working in Syria to overthrow Assad, kind of in order of their
strength, if you will, in your opinion. And then let's go a
step further than that and outline for me what you see a post-
Assad Syria looking like. Who has the most--who winds up with
the most power after he leaves?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, there is a variety of
external actors now in the Syria crisis. Some are trying to
help the government----
Mr. Weber. I've got time, go ahead and describe it.
Ambassador Ford [continuing]. And there are some that are
trying to get rid of them, like the al-Qaeda affiliate, Jabhat
al-Nusra. We think the Jabhat al-Nusra still is a minority
within the armed Opposition, maybe 10, 15 percent.
Mr. Weber. Who's the number one external influence, al-
Qaeda?
Ambassador Ford. Against the regime, yes, it would be.
Mr. Weber. Okay. Number two?
Ambassador Ford. And then there are other countries that
are also involved in the fight against Assad's regime, but what
concerns us are the extremists at the top of that list. There
are others, but at the top of that list.
Mr. Weber. Okay, enumerate the extremists for me.
Ambassador Ford. There are a variety of groups fighting in
different cities against the regime. I'll just throw out some
names. One of them is called the Hawks of Syria, Saqur al-Sham,
one is called----
Mr. Weber. How strong are they?
Ambassador Ford. Smaller than Jabhat al-Nusra, but their
strength varies location to location. A lot of these are very
localized groups, Congressman.
Mr. Weber. Okay.
Ambassador Ford. What's interesting about Jabhat al-Nusra
is it has a national command, and it's more dangerous that way.
Mr. Weber. Okay.
Ambassador Ford. You asked what would a post-Assad----
Mr. Weber. The influence of those groups on a post-Assad
government.
Ambassador Ford. Yes. The Supreme Military Command of the
Free Syrian Army, General Idris and his people, did not allow
al-Nusra and extremists groups to join that military command.
We think that they will resist the influence of those groups
after Assad departs. And I mentioned already that in Syria we
see some places where extremist groups have tried to impose
religious courts, and generated a very negative reaction near
Aleppo, and also down in the Damascus area, for example, most
recently in Eastern Syria in a place called Mayadin.
We have seen places where Jabhat al-Nusra has tried to
impose imams in mosques replacing them with foreigners instead
of Syrian imams. And, again, it's generated a very negative
reaction.
Mr. Weber. In your opinion, is that a good thing for
American sentiments?
Ambassador Ford. What I think is important, Congressman, is
that in this Syrian uprising, in this revolution there are two
competing visions of a future Syria. One is an Islamist
extremist vision supported by this al-Qaeda affiliate and
others, and there is a vision promoted that would be of a
tolerant Syria which respects the rights of all Syrians
equally.
We want to weigh in strongly on behalf of those who
advocate that second vision, and that is what we are----
Mr. Weber. Well, I get that. That goes without saying. What
is the percentage chance that that's what's going to happen?
What we don't want to happen is for any arms--we don't want
them to wind up in anti-American hands, let's face it.
Ambassador Ford. We understand that, Congressman.
Mr. Weber. Go ahead. So, what's the percentage of
likelihood in your opinion of that happening?
Ambassador Ford. Secretary Kerry during his visit to the
Middle East recently highlighted that we are increasingly
confident that countries that are providing assistance can do
so in ways such that arms do not get in the hands of
extremists. This is something that, frankly, we talk to them
daily about.
Mr. Weber. Does Assad know that?
Ambassador Ford. Oh, absolutely he knows that.
Mr. Weber. Okay. Would you call him and tell him, in case--
you know, make sure that he knows that?
Now, let----
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I think today he has not yet
decided that his days are numbered, and that he's going to have
to leave.
Mr. Weber. What advice would you give us to expedite that
decision?
Ambassador Ford. I hope the Congress will work with us to
strengthen the Syrian Opposition. I hope that Congress will
support our efforts. We've talked about Iraq and its role. We
need all the pressure we can get on the Iraqis to get them to
see where their long-term interests are best found.
We need, also, to show political support to the vision of
Syria that I mentioned, that is of a tolerant society where
there is coexistence----
Mr. Weber. We will certainly be doing that.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you.
Mr. Weber. Thank you. My time is expired. Thank you, Madam
Chair.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Randy. Ms. Bass of
California is recognized.
Ms. Bass. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to follow-up on a couple of the points that the
Ambassador was just making. And forgive me for also being in
and out. You might have answered some of these questions, but
you mentioned that Congress could be helpful by helping to
strength the Syrian Opposition. That's where I wanted to center
my questions, because you describe two centers of power, the
military, and then we have this interim Prime Minister who, I
guess, was voted in yesterday with 35 votes out of 63 members
of the Coalition.
So, with these centers of power like this, just want you to
elaborate a little more. My concern would be--and I know a lot
of my colleagues would like to see us arm the Opposition, but
I'm definitely concerned as to who this is we would be arming,
since some of these folks are from Assad's military who've
defected, and correct me if I'm wrong.
But what do you think about whether the military will be
willing to subordinate itself to political leadership? And then
this leader who was just elected, it just reminds me of Karzai.
He hasn't been in the country for a couple of decades, and he
seems pretty weak by everybody's account.
Ambassador Ford. A couple of things. Thank you,
Congresswoman. A couple of things.
I understand the concerns about arming and our policy,
again, is today----
Ms. Bass. I know.
Ambassador Ford [continuing]. Not to provide armed
assistance.
Ms. Bass. At this point, I'm glad.
Ambassador Ford. With respect to the political side, we
think--let me say a couple of things about the Prime Minister
that they selected yesterday, that was elected. He was happily
in Texas, and gave up his work there to go and work on behalf
of Syrians, and in particular to help organize humanitarian
assistance efforts, in fact, and Nancy's people in Turkey
worked with him there. And he made a very favorable impression.
He is a capable manager.
Ms. Bass. Isn't that Karzai's background? Wasn't he happily
in Texas, too?
Ambassador Ford. I'm not an expert about Afghanistan, so I
can't address that question.
Ms. Bass. Okay, I'm sorry.
Ambassador Ford. But what I would say to you is, in the
end, the Syrian Opposition itself has said that a transitional
government will have to be established. So, whether or not
Ghassan Hitto has a role in that, I think is not determined. We
view this as a short-term step to help provide services, to
help provide humanitarian assistance into areas of Syria
liberated from regime control. And that's how he defines his
role. He spoke yesterday to the press in Turkey about that.
So, his long-term prospects politically, I just can't speak
to. I don't think that's what they're thinking about now. They
have much more urgent problems with respect to the outflow of
refugees into the neighboring countries, and the dire
circumstances of Syrians inside Syria.
Ms. Bass. You also mentioned that what we--so I do want you
to tell me what we can do as Congress to help in terms of
strengthening the Syrian Opposition. But you mentioned that
what we were concerned about, too, what we didn't want to see
happen was the collapse of the state. And hasn't the state
collapsed? Does the state have any legitimacy?
Ambassador Ford. I make a distinction between legitimacy
and the collapse of the state. There's still large----
Ms. Bass. It's still functioning.
Ambassador Ford. Damascus, for example, is still--Central
Damascus is very much under government control.
Ms. Bass. I see.
Ambassador Ford. Fourth largest city. Hama is still very
much under government control. But in areas where the
government's control has receded, in the North, and in the
East, for example, their court system, financial institutions,
et cetera, in large part have stopped working.
Ms. Bass. Okay.
Ambassador Ford. And this is what I was talking about.
These were huge problems in Iraq 10 years ago.
Ms. Bass. In my last few seconds, one, I want to thank Ms.
Lindborg for all of the work that USAID does. I didn't want to
you ask you a question, though.
You mentioned the rape kits and sexual assault. And I was
just wondering what the capacity is to deal with that? Meaning
that, I mean, we even have trouble in our cities, some of our
cities in terms of putting a woman through that and then
nothing happening.
Ms. Lindborg. It's limited, but it's important that through
the training, through the provision of those supplies and also,
by the way, just a lot of regular supplies that women need.
Ms. Bass. Yes, I understand.
Ms. Lindborg. For those who have been forced from their
home, and then those who experience the violence. It's limited,
but it is definitely a part of how we train those who are
participating in the clinics and hospitals that we support.
And you are such a wonderful champion of women, I want to
make another comment.
Ms. Bass. Sure.
Ms. Lindborg. And that is, part of supporting this tolerant
secular vision is also supporting the many strong, powerful
Syrian women to have a voice, and to be a part of that future.
Suheir al-Atassi is a very strong, wonderful woman who's
heading the Assistance Coordination Unit. We've worked closely
with her, and along with our State colleagues we are providing
support and training for a group of women who have put together
a charter for Syrian women. This is part of a long-term
commitment that we have to support women's voices to be at the
table during negotiations, and to be part of the future.
Ms. Bass. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Bass.
And Mr. Messer is recognized.
Mr. Messer. Thank you. I'll start with a question for the
Ambassador.
Coming from Indiana, a couple of kind of homespun wisdoms
are you can judge people by their actions, and you can judge
them by their friends. That's a couple of pretty good ways to
judge folks. And when it comes to Assad, as you guys have laid
out very clearly, he's got a lot of the wrong friends. And when
you look at the actions of the murder of 70,000 people, the
displacement of millions of folks, and the atrocities that you
guys have described, obviously, the actions there are terrible.
Following up on the questions of the last couple of
questioners, the challenge that we face as policy makers when
looking at the Opposition and judging their friends, al-Qaeda
and others, some real challenges there, as well. And I know
you've tried this a few times, and you focused a little bit on
the less savory folks, so I would ask you to expand a little
bit upon, people use the phrase moderate rebels, the folks we
would like to see. And then I mean this with great respect, as
policy makers trying to figure out how we help, a shot at what
can we do? What, if anything, can we do to try to help those
who would be closer to the kind of government that we would
like to see post-Assad?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, let me tell you a little bit
about the head of the Syrian Opposition Coalition. We talked
with Congresswoman Bass about the gentleman that they elected
yesterday as Prime Minister, but let me talk about the
President of the Opposition Coalition.
He is an imam from the largest mosque in Damascus, actually
the Umayyad Mosque. I've met him many times. I think what most
impressed me about him was after we designated the al-Nusra
Front as a terrorist affiliate of the al-Qaeda and Iraq group,
there was a lot of criticism of us inside Syria. That is not a
secret.
In a very public speech broadcast throughout the Arab world
at the Friends of Syria meeting in Marrakesh in mid-December,
Muaz came right out directly and said, ``The kind of ideology
that al-Nusra espouses, the extremists, the intolerance, even
imposing a special tax on Christians,'' which hasn't been done
in the Middle East in hundreds and hundreds of years, `these
things are rejected,'' he said. ``That is not what we are
about.'' He talked, instead, about reaching out to Alawites,
who are the backbone of Assad's remaining support. He said,
``Join us. Don't fight us, we're not fighting you. Join us.''
This is what I'm talking about with the kind of tolerance.
Sheik Muaz wrote an open letter to the Syrian Christian
community. We'd be happy to get you a copy of it. And I know it
has had a big impact, because Syrian Christians have talked to
me about it. But this is a vision of respect for the dignity of
all Syrians. This is a vision of tolerance, of coexistence, and
I think, frankly, the vast majority of Syrians really want to
believe in that vision.
So, the extremists that we've talked about are a minority,
but I have to be honest and say as the violence goes on, those
extremist voices are getting louder.
Mr. Messer. Okay. With the remaining time I have left,
thank you for the humanitarian work that we're doing.
Obviously, very important.
If you could expand, you'd mentioned briefly the efforts
that we're making to make sure that those that are being helped
there recognize the role that America has played in providing
the help, which I think has some long-term impact toward our
earlier question. If could you just detail that a little bit, I
would appreciate it.
Ms. Lindborg. As I said, we're examining on a case-by-case
basis when and where we might be able to safely brand, but
we're also looking at what are the other ways in which people
get their information. So, we recently, the three of us took a
trip to the region, did intensive regional media, Arabic
language thanks to Ambassador Ford's Arabic.
We are using all ways that we can to get through the media,
using things like Twitter, Skype, broadcasting into Syria.
We're doing weekly calls with the Diaspora community here in
the United States. So, it's really a full-on campaign of all
the ways that we can let the Syrian people know that the
American people are absolutely with them in their time of need.
And this hearing is actually a very good opportunity, as well,
so thank you.
Ms. Richard. The High Commissioner for Refugees is in town
for a few days, so he and I went to the studio part of the
State Department yesterday and spoke to the lead correspondent
from Syria Deeply, which is a group of journalists in New York
who are trying to get information into Syria. And we do that
sort of thing all the time. The day before I'd been on CBS
News. We're trying to get our messages out however we can, so
we really appreciate your putting a spotlight on the
humanitarian pieces of this crisis.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. Messer. Mr. Vargas
is recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much for the opportunity.
You know, when I was young, I was always disgusted when I
saw one of these dictators, one of the murders go into exile. I
always thought that that was very unfair, that they would take
someone who had done all these atrocities, and they'd allow
them usually to go to France, usually Paris, you know. You
know, you think of him living a very luxurious life with his
family. I always thought that was very unfair, and certainly
seems like we've changed those laws.
As I've gotten older, however, I think of this situation
now, and I wonder the thought process of someone like, you
know, the President, Bashar al-Assad. I wonder what he's
thinking. I'm wondering, and this started to happen when he's
looking over in Egypt, and he's looking at the former President
there in prison, and potentially going to be executed, and you
said, Ambassador, he's going to think it's time to call it
quits and go. Where?
I mean, it's very interesting because now we've gotten so
tough on these people. We don't allow them to exile. We try to
hunt them down. We try to put them in jail. We try to do all
these things to them, and it's appropriate, of course, with all
the horrible things that they've done. But what do you think
is--if you can get into his head, or someone like him, you're
an Ambassador, what is the thought process going on his head?
Oh, I should just give up. This would be better if I just give
up. I've been a dictator this whole time. Or do you think hey,
roll the tanks? What do you think?
Ambassador Ford. I'm not a psychiatrist. I've met Bashar
al-Assad twice, but I wouldn't say that I understand his
psychology perfectly. I think today he still thinks he can win
militarily with help from Russia, from Iran, from Lebanese
Hezbollah, but I think he also must understand as his windows
rattle because the fighting is getting closer, he must be
thinking about whether or not his calculations are correct.
We think, Congressman, that Syrians will have to decide how
to hold him and his ruthless circle accountable. It is
ultimately a decision for Syrians to make. What we have sought
to do is help them develop the capabilities so that they can
hold trials, if that's what they want to do, so that they can
assemble evidence packages up to international standards. And
we actually are helping a center which we set up in Lyon,
France to do that with Syrian investigators.
Mr. Vargas. I guess, how realistic is that? If you're a
dictator who--you became the dictator because your father died,
so you've always been in charge. Your father was a ruthless
person. Do you think then he's going to think well, you know, I
think I'll take my chances here and let all these people that
I've ruled very cruelly for all these years take me to court,
because I think they're going to be very generous in their
dictates? Or do you think he's going to kill 70,000 people, do
you think he's going to murder people, as many as he can, and
run a war of attrition?
I think this is one of the issues that we really have to
rethink. I mean, I know it's not political to say that but, you
know, is it really worth the murder of 70,000, 100,000 people,
tanks mowing them over, being bombed from the air, mostly
children. In a war, children always lose. Or do you let one
really nasty, terrible, horrible human being potentially
escape? I don't know. Maybe they had it right for centuries
before we had our more strict dictates in law.
I put it out there, because I've got to tell you, I thought
that this is probably what Hosni Mubarak was going to do, also.
I thought he would roll the tanks. He seemed to be more of a
human being at the end and didn't do that, but this guy, of
course, did. I don't know where else would he go? If he's going
to be tried by his own people--Ambassador, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Ambassador Ford. I don't--two things I would say on this,
Congressman. First, I don't know where he would go either, if
he decided to flee. I mean, I just--I do not know. There are
going to be a lot of countries that wouldn't take him because
of all of the awful things that he is responsible for. I would
also comment, he has a family, and he's got to think about
them. He has young children. He has a wife, so what's going to
happen to them?
And then, finally, in the end, Congressman, I don't think
these are decisions that Americans have to make. These are
decisions that Syrians are going to have to make, because
they're going to have to live with the results. So, what we
have tried to do is to give them options, to give them
capabilities to deploy if they decide to follow a particular
option. And I'm very proud that we have given them those
options, and I know that they appreciate it.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Vargas. Judge Poe is
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Poe. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you all
for being here.
I was recently in Turkey and saw our Patriot batteries, the
Dutch batteries down on the border with Syria. I went to the
refugee camp there in Syria where 150,000 Syrians are in
Turkey. I could tell you, I was quite impressed with the way
the Turks are handling the thousands of people that they're
taking care of.
I had the opportunity to talk to some of the folks from
Syria, including the women. I got the impression that the
persecution of women, specifically, is not really confined to
Assad's forces, that it's anybody. It's criminals from foreign
countries, it's so-called Freedom Fighters, it's
revolutionaries, it's just bad guys, and it's the government,
which I think may indicate--it indicates to me that there are a
lot of bad things happening to the civilian population by the
people who are involved in the military conflict.
Quick question, Ms. Lindborg, Ms. Richard. Is that what you
understand, or do you think it's confined to the government
forces alone?
Ms. Lindborg. First of all, thank you for taking the trip.
It's an important symbol to have you visit. And you are
absolutely right, this is--this goes far beyond one side. And I
think it more than anything else is really emblematic of a
global epidemic of violence against women. We see this--this
goes far beyond the borders of Syria.
And if you noted on Valentine's Day, there was a wonderful
event called, ``A Billion Rising,'' which is women around the
globe taking to the streets with music and poetry, but making
the strong assertion that there's no longer a place on this
planet for violence against women.
We are working in all the ways that we can to address the
symptoms, to provide treatment, counseling, medical care, but
at the end of the day, there are deep norms that need to be
changed around the world.
Mr. Poe. Okay. Well, I appreciate you all's work on that.
You know, if I had my way, when we rounded up Assad and his
bandits, we'd take all those criminals and just give them a
trial together, put women on the jury, and let them decide.
But, Mr. Ambassador, I want to come back to you on another
issue, because my time is limited. I appreciate your work, and
people in the diplomatic field. I've been called a lot of
things, but a diplomat is not one of them.
I want to talk about Assad. I met him. I didn't like him
when I met him. I don't like him now. He's a bad guy. Is the
scenario playing out, though, that Assad is going to retreat to
his domain, his regime around Damascus, and maybe cede the area
outside of Damascus, and then hold his ground? Could we see
maybe a smaller Syria, a smaller Assad regime, and whoever gets
the rest of it is maybe in the way that it plays out? Do you
see that happening, is that his plan?
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, first, can I just add one
point to the women, because this is important. We have in the
Congressional notification, the way we intend to use some of
our assistance monies in Syria, we will spend approximately $5
million to help the Syrian Opposition Coalition and these local
councils that I talked about in liberated areas to develop
their police forces, because law and order as you heard in
Turkey is a big issue. So, we need--working with partners. I
think the Germans are going to help us with this. We need to
help get the police force----
Mr. Poe. Excuse me, Ambassador. I only have a minute left.
Ambassador Ford. Yes. Oh, on the----
Mr. Poe. Could you just answer my question?
Ambassador Ford [continuing]. On the question about Assad,
there's two possibilities. We see him pulling forces in. Will
he hold out in Damascus at the end? Maybe, but a lot of
observers think he might, instead, retreat to the heartland of
the Alawaite base of his support, which would be up along the
coast in Northwest Syria. We're not quite sure which he would
do.
Mr. Poe. The other question----
Ambassador Ford. We think he----
Mr. Poe. Let me reclaim my time. I'm sorry, Mr. Ambassador.
The Opposition, when Mr. Weber was asking you questions, the
leading Opposition movement, is that an al-Qaeda affiliate? Is
that what you said?
Ambassador Ford. No.
Mr. Poe. Okay.
Ambassador Ford. Absolutely, it is not. The al-Qaeda
affiliate is a small part of the Opposition. It's a small
minority, but his voice is getting louder.
Mr. Poe. This Ghassan Hitto, the new Prime Minister, what's
his affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood? We've heard
reports about his affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood.
What's your opinion? That's my last question.
Ambassador Ford. I've met him twice, Congressman, and he
struck me as more Texan than Muslim Brotherhood, frankly.
Mr. Poe. So, you don't think he's affiliated with the
Muslim Brotherhood?
Ambassador Ford. I don't know what his political
affiliations are, but I do know that he also has a tolerant
vision of Syrian society. He is not a religious extremist, far
from it. And that he has at some self-sacrifice gone over to
help with the humanitarian crisis in Syria. He did not have to
do that. He was comfortable in Texas.
Mr. Poe. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. Yes, you had him at he's a
Texan. Mr. Marino is recognized.
Mr. Marino. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, folks.
Ambassador, you can leave your microphone on. All right?
And I saw on the news today--I have two main concerns, the
innocent people in Syria, and our good friends, Israel. And I
saw today the President getting off the plane, and meeting the
President and Prime Minister. And it kind of reminded me of my
daughter's first prom date, bringing him to the house to meet
me. It was a little tense situation there.
But be that as it may, what are the chances that Hezbollah
will remain a potent force in Syria? And, if that's the case,
will Hezbollah's role in Lebanon be affected?
Ambassador Ford. I think Hezbollah wants to remain a potent
force in Syria. There's no question of that, and that's why
they are increasing their presence now, and they're increasing
their assistance. But I have to tell you, Congressman, that
when I talk to Syrians across the spectrum, those who do not
support the government, the anger at what Hezbollah has done to
help the regime is palpable. So, I think the transition
government, when it comes, and the government after that is not
going to want a relationship at all with Hezbollah, like what
the Assad regime had.
Mr. Marino. What is the status of arms transfer to
Hezbollah today? Can you respond to that question?
Ambassador Ford. I can't go into details here in an open
session on the intelligence, but what I can say to you,
Congressman, is that arms continue to reach Hezbollah from
Iran. But I think, also, Hezbollah's actions in Syria suggest
to me, as do Iranian actions, that Hezbollah is very nervous
about their stakes in Syria, and it will have an impact, also,
on their position in Lebanon.
Mr. Marino. Okay. And, historically, Iran, Syria,
Hezbollah, and Hamas compromised an access of resistance.
Inimicable to the U.S. interest in the Middle East, how will
the ultimate fall of Assad affect Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas?
Ambassador Ford. The end of the Assad regime will present
us with big, new strategic opportunities to stabilize that part
of the Middle East. Iran's losing access to Lebanon through
Syria will help Lebanon. In addition, losing the Assad alliance
will make it harder for Iran to spread its influence through
terror groups that have worked with Syria, and with Iran. For
us, it would be definitely a strategic gain.
Mr. Marino. Ms. Richard, could you respond to--I see that
you've written many articles and opinion pieces, and one of the
areas is Combating Terrorism. What can we continue to do, or do
with more strength to address the issues of terrorism, the
relationship with Syria, and how do we curtail this presently,
since Assad is still in control?
Ms. Richard. Congressman, I've written in the past about
countering financial flows to terrorists, so I'm not qualified
to answer your question.
Mr. Marino. I yield back my time. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Marino. And Mr. Lowenthal
is recognized. No, sir? Thank you. And now we will go to Mr.
DeSantis, my Florida colleague.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you,
witnesses. I've learned a lot. I appreciate it, and I do not
believe that Assad should survive. I mean, he doesn't have any
legitimacy, but that's an easy thing for me to say because I
don't think he really ever had any legitimacy to begin with.
I agree with Thomas Paine on the absurdities of some of
these hereditary dictatorships. I think Paine said is
indiscriminately, admits any species of character to the very
same authority, so I think that there's a problem with that. I
think we see that in North Korea, where you now have Kim Jong-
Un there. He's like a 25-year old kid, and now he's in charge
of these nuclear weapons. So, not the right way to go.
Ambassador, in terms of the jihadists that are operating in
Syria, do you have any idea to what extent these are foreign
fighters, are they native Syrians, are they a mixture of both?
Ambassador Ford. The group that concerns us most, al-Nusra
Front, started out as largely inspired by jihadists from Iraq.
Mr. DeSantis. And do we suspect that some of those folks
may have been actually fighting American forces when we had a
larger presence in Iraq?
Ambassador Ford. I think that is very possible.
Mr. DeSantis. Now, what type of international support are
these foreign fighters, the al-Qaeda type terrorists getting? I
know that Zawahiri is favorable to them, but do they have any
other source of support, either ideological, military, or
economic?
Ambassador Ford. They do, Congressman, and that's one of
the things that enable them to attract a lot of recruits. I
think a lot of Syrians who fight under their banner are not, in
fact, extremists, but they can get food, they can get
ammunition from them. And al-Nusra and other extremists have a
very well developed network of private finance that moves up to
them, and that they are able to access.
Mr. DeSantis. If it gets to the point where somebody else
is going to take over in Syria, somebody like Iran, who's
obviously done a lot of business with Assad and is an ally, how
would they kind of mediate between some of these groups? I
mean, I guess I'm just asking you to just give me your general
opinion, but would they be willing to work with a group like JN
or some of these groups, or some of these moderate Syrian
Opposition groups? I mean, I guess I'm just trying to figure
out how this would affect Iran's role in the region.
Ambassador Ford. The groups we're talking about, the
jihadists, Congressman, hate Iran, hate it passionately, so I
don't think they would ever work with Iran. In fact, I would be
concerned that they will actually go out and kill Syrian Shia
at the end of fighting. That's a different concern, but they
won't have any truck with Iran.
Mr. DeSantis. What about the moderate groups?
Ambassador Ford. People such as the Supreme Military
Council, I think also are going to be so--well, they already
are, and they tell us this, they're already so frustrated with
Iran, and so angry at the Iranian intervention. In many cases,
it's Iranian equipment that's causing them casualties, I don't
think they're going to have a good relationship at all with
Iran after this crisis comes to a close and we have a
transition government.
Mr. DeSantis. And then I guess the final thing that
concerns me, it just seems like in this part of the world when
you have different groups potentially jockeying for power, it
seems like the most militant and violent tends to take the
upper hand, just because they're willing to do whatever. I'm
worried that that will happen in this case.
You know, 1) do you think that that's a legitimate fear?
And, 2) what can be done, if anything, from our perspective,
the United States, to shape that outcome in a way that's going
to be better for peace in the region?
Ambassador Ford. That is exactly our concern, Congressman,
that my experience in other countries where I've worked, such
as Algeria during their civil war, and in Iraq, that as the
violence grows, extremists profit from that. They benefit from
that. Their loud voices, their hard lined positions, the
grandstanding appeals, and so we think it is really important
to empower people who have a much more tolerant vision of what
Syrian society should be. We need to target, as best we can,
resource flows that go into these jihadist groups, and that is
one of the impacts of our designating al-Nusra, for example.
And we have to find ways to help the Syrian groups that are
inside the areas liberated from government control to provide
basic services which will undercut a lot of the appeal that the
extremists have. That is why we have notified Congress about
programs we want to start to enable the local councils and the
Syrian Opposition Coalition to provide those services.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you. Yield back.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much, sir. Mr. Collins of
Georgia is recognized.
Mr. Collins. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.
Ambassador Ford, you emphasized the need to solidify, and I
think your words were solidify the efforts of Syrian moderates
who are competing for influence with extremist groups, and to
curtail the influence of extremists by helping the national and
local Opposition leaders, providing the vital services, food,
water, electricity. I heard you, and understood you correctly
on that. Correct?
The question comes in is, why are we providing so much of
this support through U.N. agencies that rely on the consent of
Assad regime for their access. You've talked about crossing
lines and there's support for crossing lines, but I see it as
strengthening and prolonging the survival of the regime by
allowing it to dictate the terms of access. And then, in turn,
they're able to claim credit for providing services to their
civilians.
Wouldn't you agree that that would be how Assad sees that,
and how----
Ambassador Ford. Congressman, I'm making a huge distinction
between helping local councils in liberated areas provide basic
services. Getting chlorine so that public water taps can be
turned back on, buying some generators so that essential
buildings will have electricity. That is not the kind of
humanitarian assistance provided to people in need in
government-controlled areas. That's a different thing. So,
there are the programs that we're talking about. This is the
$60 million that Secretary Kerry announced in Rome, and that we
just sent notification of to Congress at the beginning of the
week. That is to work specifically to strengthen these nascent
governing bodies in liberated areas, and to help knit together
this national Opposition leadership with people on the street.
Mr. Collins. And you're going to be working those through
what forms of--through U.N. transfer, NGOs?
Ambassador Ford. No, no, we do that----
Mr. Collins. Or we're doing directly?
Ambassador Ford. We do that directly.
Mr. Collins. Going to do that directly.
Ambassador Ford. That has nothing to do with our United
Nations.
Ms. Richard. What I'd like to do is defend the U.N.
presence in Damascus, because they're not there to prop up the
Assad regime. They're there to make sure that the aid gets in.
Now, to get visas, they have to get them from the Ministries
that he controls. But once they're there, their intention,
which they are, in my judgment, fulfilling, is to get aid out
to innocent people wherever they can throughout the country.
Now, in Syria there is no only Opposition on one side, and
only regime control on the other side. It's more like a
checkerboard, and they are trying to get it to all these hard
to reach areas, and they're trying to get to people everywhere.
Let me give you an example. I was talking to the World
Health Organization about vaccinations. For 2\1/2\ years, there
have hardly been vaccination campaigns going on in Syria.
Disease won't respect where the battle lines are, so we want to
get the aid in wherever we can using every possible legitimate
method we can. And the U.N. is playing a very important part of
that, think.
Mr. Collins. Well, I think the role of the U.N. in Syria
and other places be debated, and that's fine and good. I think
the issue here is how we are proceeding with the aid that we're
sending, and how it's going in.
I want to flip the question back, and I want to associate
myself with the gentlelady from California, Ms. Bass, a few
minutes ago when we were talking about this issue of the next
ruling as we go along. And someone who's been elected again who
came from not inside the country. I want to just continue down
that thought for just a second.
It just seems to me we're playing out the same format that
we have seen many times in many countries, especially in the
Middle East, where we're coming in with someone who's been
away, maybe on the forefront, who's willing, as I think your
words were gave up his work to go help in Syria. That's a noble
cause, but the legitimacy factor here, and the weakness seems
to be a continuing problem here.
Can you address that a little bit more in detail, and say
why are we not just heading down the same road that we've
headed down before?
Ambassador Ford. The easiest answer to that question,
Congressman, is we aren't heading in. Syrians chose him, we had
nothing to do with it. We know him because we were working with
him before on getting humanitarian assistance into Syria, into
the checkerboard that Anne just described. But we certainly
didn't choose him, and he's not--I mean, we stayed out of it
entirely. He was chosen, Congressman, by a council of people
from both inside and outside Syria to play that role.
Mr. Collins. But doesn't it concern you? I mean, I
probably----
Ambassador Ford. No, I understand the thrust of your
question, but I don't know that he has a long-term political
future in Syria. He has been elected for an immediate task of
managing----
Mr. Collins. We've seen that sort of thought before. We've
seen it in Afghanistan, we've seen the, you know, I'll come to
help, and then we all of a sudden see consolidation of power. I
mean, we've seen this in other areas, Egypt or other places. I
understand we're not ``putting him there,'' but I think there
is influence. If we're influencing in other things we can--
there is influence that needs to be looked at beforehand in
this process. This is not an easy topic. I'm not asking for an
easy postcard answer, but I am asking the question, saying I'm
afraid we're going down the same path again that will reap the
same problems and benefits as we go forward. I think this is
too important for us to miss, given the fact that our close
relationship with Israel, and Jordan, and the stability in that
region, this is not something we can afford to be playing with
the next 10 to 20 years. So, I yield back, Madam Chair.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much, Mr. Collins, for
excellent observations. Thank you to our panelists on behalf of
Chairman Royce for explaining the humanitarian crisis going on.
And, Ambassador Ford, the committee looks forward to continuing
the conversation with you about the conflicting reports of
weapons, chemical weapons being used. Thank you for your
clarification.
And with that, Chairman Royce would like for me to say that
the committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:06 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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