[House Hearing, 113 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] APPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2013 __________ Serial No. 113-4 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov _____ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 78-820 PDF WASHINGTON : 2013 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair DANA ROHRABACHER, California EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas RALPH M. HALL, Texas ZOE LOFGREN, California F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois Wisconsin DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California PAUL C. BROUN, Georgia DAN MAFFEI, New York STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi ALAN GRAYSON, Florida MO BROOKS, Alabama JOSEPH KENNEDY III, Massachusetts ANDY HARRIS, Maryland SCOTT PETERS, California RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois DEREK KILMER, Washington LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana AMI BERA, California STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut BILL POSEY, Florida MARC VEASEY, Texas CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming JULIA BROWNLEY, California DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona MARK TAKANO, California THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky VACANCY KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma RANDY WEBER, Texas CHRIS STEWART, Utah ------ Subcommittee on Research HON. LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana, Chair STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois MO BROOKS, Alabama ZOE LOFGREN, California STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas AMI BERA, California CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas C O N T E N T S Thursday, February 14, 2013 Page Witness List..................................................... 2 Hearing Charter.................................................. 3 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Larry Bucshon, Chairman, Subcommittee on Research, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives....................................... 5 Written Statement............................................ 5 Statement by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Ranking Minority Member, Subcommittee on Research, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.................. 7 Written Statement............................................ 8 Witnesses: Dr. Kelly Gaither, Director, Visualization Lab, Texas Advanced Computing Center, University of Texas, Austin Oral Statement............................................... 10 Written Statement............................................ 13 Dr. Kathryn McKinley, Principal Researcher, Microsoft Oral Statement............................................... 20 Written Statement............................................ 22 Dr. Ed Lazowska, Bill and Melinda Gates Chair in Computer Science and Engineering, University of Washington Oral Statement............................................... 34 Written Statement............................................ 36 Discussion....................................................... 47 APPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ---------- THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2013 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Research Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:01 p.m., in Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Larry Bucshon [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Bucshon. The Subcommittee on Research will come to order. Good afternoon. Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Applications for Information Technology Research & Development.'' In front of you are packets containing the written testimony, biographies, and truth-in-testimony disclosures for today's witness panel. I recognize myself now for five minutes for an opening statement. First, I want to welcome everyone today. This is my first hearing as the Chairman of the Research Subcommittee and I look forward to working with the Ranking Member, Mr. Lipinski, on this and many other issues in the 113th Congress. The topic of this afternoon's hearing, ``Applications for Information Research & Development,'' is important to our national security, global competitiveness, and technological innovation. This hearing will provide us with examples of practical applications and the benefits of federal investment in networking and information technology, or NITRD research. The Networking and Information Technology Research and Development Program, or NITRD, was originally authorized in 1991 in the High Performance and Computing Act. It coordinates the networking and information R&D efforts of 15 federal agencies, including DHS, NASA, NIH, EPA, and the Department of Energy. The program is the main R&D investment portfolio of member agencies in networking, computing, software, cybersecurity, and related informational technologies totaling over $3.7 billion in fiscal year 2013. R&D in NIT provides a greater understanding of how to protect essential systems and networks that support fundamental sections of our economy, from emergency communications and power grids to air traffic control networks and national defense systems. NITRD works to prevent or minimize disruptions to critical information infrastructure to protect public and private services, to detect and respond to threats while mitigating the severity of and assisting in the recovery from those threats in an effort to support a more stable and secure Nation. As technology rapidly advances, the need for NIT research and development continues to evolve. NITRD works to prevent duplicative and overlapping R&D efforts, thereby enabling more efficient use of brain power and resources while maintaining-- while remaining good stewards of the taxpayers' money. Today, our witnesses will share their professional perspectives on how NITRD applies to the quality of Americans' everyday lives. I would like to now recognize the Ranking Member, the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Lipinski, for an opening statement. [The prepared statement of Mr. Bucshon follows:] Prepared Statement of Chairman Larry Bucshon First, I want to welcome everyone today. This is my first hearing as Chairman of the Research Subcommittee and I look forward to working with the Ranking Member, Mr. Lipinski, on this and many other issues in the 113th Congress. The topic of this afternoon's hearing, Applications for Information Research & Development, is important to our national security, global competitiveness and technological innovation. This hearing will provide us with examples of practical applications and the benefits of Federal investment in networking and information technology R&D. The Networking and Information Technology Research and Development program, or NITRD, was originally authorized in 1991 in the High Performance and Computing Act. It coordinates the networking and information R&D efforts of 15 Federal member agencies, including DHS, NASA, NIH, EPA and the Department of Energy. The program is the main R&D investment portfolio of member agencies in networking, computing, software, cyber security and related information technologies totaling over $3.7 billion in FY2013. R&D in NIT provides a greater understanding of how to protect essential systems and networks that support fundamental sectors of our economy, from emergency communications and power grids to air-traffic control networks and national defense systems. NIT R&D works to prevent or minimize disruptions to critical information infrastructure, to protect public and private services, to detect and respond to threats while mitigating the severity of and assisting in the recovery from those threats, in an effort to support a more stable and secure nation. As technology rapidly advances, the need for NIT research and development continues to evolve. NITRD works to prevent duplicative and overlapping R&D efforts, thereby enabling more efficient use of brainpower and resources, while remaining good stewards of taxpayer's money. Today our witnesses will share their professional perspectives on how NITRD applies to the quality of American's everyday lives. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for holding this hearing and also congratulate you on being named the Chair of this Subcommittee. I have been either Chair or Ranking Member of this Subcommittee now for three Congresses. I love this Committee and this Subcommittee. I look forward to working with you. I had a very good relationship with the Chair last Congress, and I think we could work very well together and get some good things done in these next two years. I am looking forward to that. The House has passed bipartisan legislation reauthorizing the NITRD program in the past two Congresses. So I believe we can get something done again in this Congress. Hopefully, the third time is the charm with the Senate. The most problematic issue threatening the NITRD program right now are the cuts and uncertainty in top-line R&D budgets. While authorizing NITRD wouldn't solve these problems, it would signal the government's continuing interest in investing in these critical research areas in a partnering with industry to help set R&D and workforce training priorities that prepare our nation for the future. The NITRD program evolved from a federal program established under the High Performance Computing Act of 1991, as the Chairman said. That Act provided the funding that led to the development of Mosaic in 1993, the World Wide Web browser that made the Internet user friendly and led to its explosion in the 1990s. I am proud to note that Mosaic was created by a team of programmers at the federally funded National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois. Netscape founder Marc Andreessen, who was a leader of the Illinois team before launching his company, was quoted as saying ``if it had been left to private industry, it wouldn't have happened, at least not until years later.'' Without question, the 1991 Act sets the stage for a coordinated federal R&D investment strategy that has underpinned U.S. leadership in networking and information technology over the past 2 decades. In Illinois, that leadership in R&D is helping to complete work on a Blue Waters project, a petascale supercomputer that will maintain the University of Illinois' position at the forefront of high performance computing research. But as with many other areas of R&D, we can no longer take for granted U.S. leadership in NIT. As noted by Dr. McKinley and his testimony, China, Japan--let me go back and--I think I may have said Mr.--make sure I said Dr. McKinley in her testimony--China, Japan, Germany, and several other countries are increasing their investments in NIT R&D and in their capacity to convert R&D into new commercial technologies. As we heard from witnesses at a hearing on U.S. competitiveness last week, R&D no longer occurs in simple linear progression from basic research to commercial product. There may be a clear role for the government in basic research, including use-inspired basic research; and a clear role for industry in the last 1 to three years of product development work. But there are multiple gaps between those efforts. And our economy benefits exponentially when our R&D portfolio includes partnerships that facilitate collaboration among universities, national labs, and industry. This applies as much to NIT as to any other area of R&D. In fact, historically, some of the most economically important public-private partnerships have been in the NIT sector. We must also join forces in addressing NIT education and workforce challenges. While the Federal Government has a role here, I would like to hear our witnesses' input on that. This is also a problem that demands the attention of state and local government, as well as the private sector. As I have noted several times in the past, I am concerned about trends in outsourcing of even high skills jobs. At the same time however, we hear anecdotally of thousands of U.S. NIT jobs that go unfulfilled due to a lack of qualified applicants. There is no doubt we need to do a better job overall in preparing our students for jobs of today and in the future, and in particular, we need to graduate more computer science majors. I hope the Chairman will allow me to go a little over time after I praised him at the beginning. Now, I don't have too much longer. Finally, because PCAST discusses this topic in their latest review of NITRD, I want to bring up educational technology and the possible topic of discussion for this hearing. By that I mean R&D on technology to improve learning outcomes and increase access to high-quality education, including STEM education. One of the hottest topics today in higher education is Massively Open Online Courses, or MOOCs. Many of the MOOC courses are in computer science and engineering. I wonder how this is changing the NIT education landscape, as well as what the implications and opportunities are for education research. This is an also expansive enough topic on its own and maybe the Subcommittee would consider holding a separate hearing to look more carefully at these issues. With that, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, in particular Dr. Lazowska, who is becoming an old hand at this by now. I look forward to all your testimony and yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lipinski follows:] Prepared Statement of Ranking Minority Member Daniel Lipinski Thank you Chairman Bucshon for holding this hearing. And congratulations on being selected to Chair this Subcommittee. The House has passed bipartisan legislation reauthorizing the NITRD program in the past two Congresses, so I believe that we can get something done again this Congress. Hopefully the third time is the charm for the Senate. The most problematic issues threatening the NITRD program right now are the cuts and uncertainty in top-line R&D budgets. While reauthorizing NITRD wouldn't solve these problems, it would signal the government's continuing interest in investing in these critical research areas, and in partnering with industry to help set R&D and workforce training priorities that prepare our nation for the future. The NITRD program evolved from a federal program established under the High Performance Computing Act of 1991. That Act provided the funding that led to the development of Mosaic in 1993, the World Wide Web browser that made the Internet user-friendly and led to its explosion in the 1990s. I am proud to note that Mosaic was created by a team of programmers at the federally funded National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois. Netscape founder Marc Andreeson, who was a leader of the Illinois team before launching his company, was quoted as saying, ``If it had been left to private industry, it wouldn't have happened, at least, not until years later.'' Without question the 1991 Act set the stage for a coordinated federal R&D investment strategy that has underpinned U.S. leadership in networking and information technology over the past two decades. In Illinois, that leadership in R&D is helping to complete work on the Blue Waters project, a petascale supercomputer that will maintain the University of Illinois's position at the forefront of high performance computing research. But as with many other areas of R&D, we can no longer take for granted U.S. leadership in NIT. As noted by Dr. McKinley in her testimony, China, Japan, Germany, and several other countries are increasing their investments in NIT R&D, and in their capacity to convert R&D into new commercial technologies. As we heard from witnesses at a hearing on US Competitiveness last week, R&D no longer occurs in a simple linear progression from basic research to commercial product. There may be a clear role for the government in basic research, including use-inspired basic research, and a clear role for industry in the last 1-3 years of product development work. But there are multiple gaps between those efforts, and our economy benefits exponentially when our R&D portfolio includes partnerships that facilitate collaboration among universities, national labs, and industry. This applies as much to NIT as to any other area of R&D. In fact, historically, some of the most economically important public- private partnerships have been in the NIT sector. We must also join forces in addressing NIT education and workforce challenges. While the federal government has a role here--and I'd like to hear our witnesses' input on that--this is a problem that also demands the attention of state and local government as well as the private sector. As I have noted several times in the past, I am concerned about trends in outsourcing of even high-skills jobs. At the same time, however, we hear anecdotally of thousands of U.S. NIT jobs that go unfilled due to a lack of qualified applicants. \1\ There is no doubt we need to do a better job overall in preparing our students for jobs of today and the future, and in particular we need to graduate more computer science majors. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ Dr. McKinley cites 3,400 unfilled research and engineering positions at Microsoft alone. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, because PCAST discusses this topic in their latest review of NITRD, I want to bring up educational technology as a possible topic of discussion for this hearing. By that I mean R&D on technologies to improve learning outcomes and increase access to high-quality education, including STEM education. One of the hottest topics today in higher education is Massively Open Online Courses, or MOOCs. Many of the MOOC courses are in computer science and engineering. I wonder how this is changing the NIT education landscape, as well as what the implications and opportunities are for education research. But this is also an expansive enough topic on its own that maybe Chairman Bucshon will consider holding a separate hearing to look more carefully at these issues. With that, I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today, and in particular Dr. Lazowska who is becoming an old hand at this by now. I look forward to all of your testimony. Chairman Bucshon. Thank you, Mr. Lipinski. If there are Members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your statements will be added to the record at this point. At this time, I would like to introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. Kelly Gaither. She is the Director of Visualization and a Senior Research Scientist at the Texas Advanced Computing Center. Additionally, she serves as the area Co-Director for Visualization and the National Science Foundation-funded XSEDE project. Dr. Gaither received her doctorate degree in Computational Engineering from Mississippi State University. Welcome. Our next witness is Dr. Kathryn McKinley, who is a Principal Researcher at Microsoft and an Endowed Professor of Computer Science at the University of Texas at Austin. Dr. McKinley has a broad area of research interests, and her research group has produced numerous tools, algorithms, and methodologies are used in a variety of industrial settings. Dr. McKinley earned her B.A., M.S., and Ph.D. from Rice University. Welcome. Our final witness today is Dr. Ed Lazowska. Mr. Lazowska holds the Bill and Melinda Gates Chair in Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Washington. He also serves as the Founding Director of the University of Washington eScience Institute and the Chair of the Computing Community Consortium. Dr. Lazowska has received national recognition for his research and leadership activities. Dr. Lazowska earned his Ph.D. from the University of Toronto. Welcome. As our witnesses should know, spoken testimony is limited to five minutes each after which Members of the Committee will have five minutes each to ask questions. I now recognize Dr. Gaither to present her testimony. TESTIMONY OF DR. KELLY GAITHER, DIRECTOR, VISUALIZATION LAB, TEXAS ADVANCED COMPUTING CENTER, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS, AUSTIN Dr. Gaither. Thank you, Chairman Bucshon, Ranking Member Lipinski, and Members of the Subcommittee for this opportunity. I am here as the Director of Visualization and a Senior Research Scientist at the Texas Advanced Computing Center. At TACC, our mission is to enable discoveries that advance science and society through the application of advanced computing technologies. We support thousands of researchers and partner with companies like Dell, Intel, Shell, Chevron, and BP to push the state of the art. Science can only advance if we continue to push the envelope. Computational science or the application of computer simulations to scientific applications is the third pillar of 21st century science. Significant progress has been made in the last two decades because of federal investments in interdisciplinary teamwork. As an interdisciplinary researcher, I have been funded to work on projects like the visualization and data analysis of massive scale turbulent flow simulations-- important because of its applications in aircraft and automobile design, energy, storm damage, and galaxy formation. I am also the principal investigator for the largest visualization cluster in the world. With this project, we have enabled more than 619 researchers conducting large-scale computational science, and we have trained hundreds of people at institutions across the Nation. I am also the director of a visualization laboratory, home to one of the largest tile displays in the world. We have had more than 18,000 people come through those doors, many of which are K-12 students. We are a country of innovators and this innovation must be fostered with significant investment and patience. The NITRD program gives us that funding for resources at a scale prohibited for individual institutions. With respect to funding opportunities in NITRD, let me first commend the efforts to create national programs with increasing focus on data. However, this should not be done to the exclusion of funding research and development and modeling, simulation, and visualization. It is imperative that we strive to build a balanced portfolio of funding opportunities. We can see the evidence of a shift in the Nation's high-end computing strategy. The decrease in funding is not limited to the resources but extends to many of the underlying scientific applications and crucial software tools as well. This dip in funding is at odds with the increased need for high-end computing technologies and open science research. How can we ensure a persistent pipeline to meet the Nation's IT needs? I graduated from high school in one of the poorest states in the Nation at a time when young women were not encouraged to go to college. I have been supported by federally-funded computational research dollars since I was 24 years old. I am the by-product of federal funding, and persistent funding at that. Without this funding, I would not have had the opportunities to participate in many of the interdisciplinary research projects that focus on solving some of society's most challenging issues. We need opportunities to educate students in interdisciplinary research and provide invaluable hands-on experience working with teams of researchers. We are lacking a thriving focus on research and development that is not driven by quarterly profit bottom line. In closing, I would like to reiterate my appreciation for the invitation to speak to you today about the impact that the NITRD program has had in my research. To summarize, first, we must make significant continued investments in the NITRD program. As a researcher, I know that investments in research will keep us at the forefront of innovation. We must not shortchange our commitment and vision to continue the successes of those that have come before us. Second, we must maintain a balanced portfolio of NITRD funding opportunities for researchers in computational science. We must find a way to continue to increase investment not to the exclusion of existing funding streams. It is a combination of efforts that is most likely to be fruitful. And last, we must provide exciting opportunities to entice our students to stay in computational science. We must deal head-on with the brain drain that our universities are experiencing in undergraduate and postgraduate education. While there is no magic bullet that will solve this problem, it seems clear that a new approach is warranted. This new approach requires an investment in both curriculum development and student research to provide exciting opportunities for future generations of scientists. [The prepared statement of Dr. Gaither follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Bucshon. Thank you, Dr. Gaither. I now recognize Dr. McKinley for five minutes to present her testimony. TESTIMONY OF DR. KATHRYN MCKINLEY, PRINCIPAL RESEARCHER, MICROSOFT Dr. McKinley. Chairman Bucshon, Ranking Member Lipinski, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting Microsoft to testify and your attention to how IT innovation helps the Nation create jobs and grow our economy. I am Kathryn McKinley. My experiences with the National Science Foundation, the National Academies, DOE, and DARPA, and as an Endowed Professor at the University of Texas at Austin, and my current role as Principal Researcher at Microsoft inform my testimony. First, I would like to point out that an interconnected IT research ecosystem has made the United States the world's leading economy with the best defense capabilities. The results of IT research include new billion-dollar industries that create jobs and make us safer, healthier, more efficient, and delight us. One example is the Microsoft Xbox 360 Kinect. With Kinect, your voice and your body are the game controller. Kinect combines decades of research at Microsoft and elsewhere on artificial intelligence, graphics, motion detection, and voice recognition. New technologies inspire more innovation, and now, Kinect is advancing learning, health, and retail. Kinect exists because Microsoft's business strategy is to make long-term investments and bets. Twenty years of investment in Microsoft Research has made Microsoft Research the largest and most successful computing research organization in the world. Yet Microsoft thrives as a part of a larger research ecosystem partnering with government, industry, and academia. Key IT research areas for our Nation and for NITRD include big data, privacy, and building trustworthy systems. A particularly important research challenge that I work on is that your computer is no longer getting faster every year. In the past, doubling of performance every two years drove new computing capabilities and accelerated innovation in IT. Unfortunately, current technology is up against some fundamental limits, and no new technologies are ready to overcome them. The technical challenges are compounded by global competition. Substantial investments in Asia and Europe have increased their contributions to the research ecosystem and their participation in the global IT economy. While the United States still enjoys an advantage, the gap is narrowing. Significant research investments in areas such as semiconductors, materials, architecture, and programming systems are needed. If the overall rate of innovation slows, it will be easier for other countries to close the gap and the United States will lose its economic and national security advantages. Let us talk about education. Technology is and will infuse all aspects of life in the 21st century. People who understand IT will flourish in the global knowledge economy. The U.S. computing workforce demands are outpacing its supplies. Forty thousand people earned a computing Bachelor's degree last year, but that is not enough because we are projected to have 120,000 openings for jobs that require a computer science degree. The United States, including federal agencies, must strengthen computing education at all levels, including K through 12, to fill these jobs. A particular challenge in computing is the limited participation of women, Hispanics, and African-Americans. My community, through efforts such as the Computing Research Association, where I am a Board Member and a Committee Co- Chair, has programs that are proven to increase the success of women and minorities by mentoring Master's and Ph.D. graduate students and giving undergraduates research experiences. But we need more success stories. The United States simply cannot afford to fail to capitalize on the creativity of 70 percent of its population if it wants to remain globally competitive. The IT knowledge economy depends on the flow of the best people and ideas between academia, government, and industry. I would like to finish with a little of my own personal story. I did not go to college intending to become a researcher or even a computer scientist. I came from a family of lawyers. I took a computer science course and then Professor Don Johnson at Rice University hired me for a summer research project. That experience opened my eyes to the excitement of solving problems where no one knows the answers. And that could be my job. But tight integration of research and education makes the U.S. research universities the best in the world. I thank you for this opportunity to testify and your Committee's long-standing support for IT research and innovation. I would be pleased to answer questions. [The prepared statement of Dr. McKinley follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Bucshon. Thank you, Dr. McKinley. I now recognize Dr. Lazowska to present his testimony. TESTIMONY OF DR. ED LAZOWSKA, BILL AND MELINDA GATES CHAIR IN COMPUTER SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON Dr. Lazowska. Well, I, too, would like to thank Chairman Bucshon, Ranking Member Lipinski, and the Members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Ed Lazowska. I am a longtime faculty member at the University of Washington. I have been a member or Chair of many federal IT Advisory Committees. Most recently, I was Co- Chair of the Working Group of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology that conducted a review of the overall NITRD program in 2010. What that review found--and you have heard about this from the other two witnesses--is that the research ecosystem supported by the NITRD program has been the primary factor in America's world leadership in information technology. And if we are going to remain competitive in this increasingly competitive world, there is honestly no field in which it is more important to maintain our leadership than information technology. So what I want to do today is focus on one aspect of my written testimony, and that is the unique and essential role of the relatively modest federal investment in IT R&D. The National Research Council over many years, going back to 1995, a report I participated in, has constructed a series of diagrams that attempt to explain how this works, how this ecosystem fits together. I want to say for Mr. Lipinski, who has seen previous versions of this diagram, that this one is new and improved, just out a few months ago. And in fact, the individual who produced this is Peter Lee, who is the Vice President for Microsoft Research in the United States. This diagram is a timeline that runs from bottom to top and it tracks the growth of eight major sectors of the IT industry, broadband and mobile, microprocessors, personal computing, and so on. They are labeled near the top. There are three lines for each sector. Let me just take a second and explain this. The red line shows research performed in universities mostly with NITRD funding. The blue line in the middle shows when industry R&D organizations were working in the same sector largely with private-sector funding. The dotted black line shows when the first product was introduced. When that line becomes green, it became a billion-dollar market sector. When the green line gets thicker, it becomes a $10 billion market sector. The small diagonal arrows you can barely see are the flow of specific key people and ideas between academia and industry and between the sectors. It looks like someone just tossed those on there, but in fact, there is a spreadsheet that says what each one corresponds to. And above the lines are some of the multibillion-dollar companies that resulted in these sectors. So the diagram shows many key aspects of this really incredibly productive IT R&D ecosystem. And let me just note a few of them. First, research can take a long time before it pays off, in many of those examples, 15 years from critical research advances to the first product introduction. Secondly, research often pays off in unanticipated ways. We are not very good at predicting where the biggest impact is going to be. Third, advances in one sector often enable advances in other sectors. It really is an interconnected network. Fourth, the research ecosystem is fueled by the flow of people and ideas back-and-forth between academia and industry. And finally, every one of these multibillion-dollar sectors has a clear relationship to federal research investment. So it is important to realize--and you have heard it from the other two witnesses--that federal investment does not supplant private-sector investment; it complements it. Here is why: the vast majority of industry R&D is development, the engineering of the next release of the product. This is totally appropriate. Developing products is hard. Also, research takes many years to pay off in many cases. Even at Microsoft and IBM, which invest far more than any other IT companies in work that looks out more than one or two product cycles, this investment constitutes only about five percent of total R&D. At most companies it is 0 percent in IT. Here is a great example--in addition to Kinect which you heard about from Dr. McKinley. It is this cute little iPad. Now, it is a product that maybe only Apple could have designed, just like Kinect is a clever product maybe only Microsoft could have designed, but every distinctive aspect of this device--the multi-touch interface, the sensors, the processor--has its origins in federally-sponsored research. So IT R&D leads to exciting companies, but it does far more. It drives the economy, as you heard, directly through the growth of the IT industry, indirectly through productivity gains in other sectors. Looking to the future--and Chairman Bucshon did a wonderful job of describing this in his introductory remarks--dramatic advances are necessary in meeting all of our national and global challenges; improved healthcare, advanced manufacturing, increased national and homeland security, revolutionizing transportation, personalized education--hopefully, we will talk about MOOCs in a minute--putting the smarts in the smart grid, driving advances in all fields. Given the broad influence, it is not surprising that the demand for IT workers is strong. Dr. McKinley spoke to that clearly. What I would say is all STEM is important, but from a workforce point of view, all STEM is not created equal. So to summarize, computing research changes our world, drives our prosperity, enables advances in all other fields, and is essential to meeting our national and global challenges. The government has played an essential role in fostering these examples. The future is bright. There is opportunity and need. There is also tremendous need for well-educated graduates. The government's role in supporting fundamental research is essential and doesn't supplant private sector investment. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Dr. Lazowska follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Bucshon. Thank you. And I would like to thank all the witnesses for their testimony and being available for questioning. I want to remind Members that the Committee rules limit questioning to five minutes, and as Chair I will open and recognize myself for five minutes at this point. I will some response from all of you on this one. In previous NITRD hearings, we have heard that IT's role in national security, national competitiveness, and national priorities is far broader than high-performance computing alone. As we continue to learn more about the recent National Intelligence Estimate Report regarding China's use of cyber espionage, can you expand on how the IT field has influenced or continues to influence national security? And whomever wants to go first. Dr. Lazowska? Dr. Lazowska. I will give it a try. I think what has happened in the past 20 years is that high-performance computing is as important as it ever was and of ever-increasing importance, but what has happened is a set of other aspects of the field has risen to perhaps comparable importance. All right? So this was called the High Performance Computing Act of 1991 because that was clearly the dominant aspect of the field in importance. Now, where we stand in robotics, where we stand in mining vast amounts of data for intelligence purposes, all sorts of other aspects of the field are just as important to our security and to our competitiveness. So, for example, big data clearly matters in assessing threats. Artificial intelligence clearly matters in understanding communiques from other nations doing language translation, things like this. So in addition to information technology being important in countering all sorts of threats, it is a threat itself. All right? So there has, as you noted, been lots of attention to cyber warfare recently. This is an area where, honestly, we lag behind. That is, the aggressors have an advantage over the defenders and we have been defending for decades with what I have to say are heroic Band-Aid efforts. And we need to really rethink the design of our systems to make them more secure. And that is a research challenge. Chairman Bucshon. Thank you. Anyone else have---- Dr. McKinley. So I would just like to add to Ed's remarks that 20 years ago, defense was driving IT. We had big investments in technologies that were really directly applicable to defense, but because of the rise in industry and consumer products that use IT, we now have a huge influence on the capabilities of defense, driven by capabilities of things you also want to buy. And so, for example, a Smartphone is very helpful to a soldier as well as helpful to you when you are trying to get your kids to their hockey games. So that the driving of what technologies you want to use in the field, as well as the technologies that are useful for consumers have come together. And this is where the narrowing of the gap is a problem because you want to have better capabilities. And that requires being ahead of the game and being ahead of industry as well and ready with the new technologies. Chairman Bucshon. Dr. Gaither? Dr. Gaither. Yes, so I would like to just address it very briefly. I would not look at this as an either/or problem. So I think it really does--I guess it goes back to my point about interdisciplinary work. I think you should look at it as a combination of high-performance computing, as a combination of the data mining. Clearly, that is going to play a very large role. But I would look at it as a portfolio of tools to solve this problem, not one versus the other. Chairman Bucshon. Great. Thank you. I will now recognize Mr. Lipinski for five minutes. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. I will let you continue on--since you started talking about cybersecurity, I will jump to that question. Obviously, it is a big issue becoming bigger, and I think we are going to learn, unfortunately, maybe in a dramatic fashion how critical it is to us right now. I cosponsored a bill last Congress with Congressman McCaul called the Cybersecurity Enhancement Act. We are going to be introducing that again. Among other things, it would require a federal strategy for assessing cyber threats and coordinate cyber R&D to address these threats. Part of the 2013 PCAST report on NITRD recommended greater coordination among agencies on cybersecurity R&D. In what ways do you think--you touched on this little bit--what ways do you think the Federal Government could better coordinate research efforts in cybersecurity? Dr. Lazowska? Dr. Lazowska. One comment I would make is that all of these studies have found that NITRD is one of the most successful coordination efforts. So I think we have to state that at the outset. In cybersecurity, there is a particular challenge because of classification. And I think an important issue is attempting to distill the essence of classified problems so that a broader range of investigators can work on them. All right? So most universities don't do classified research, but many of the best cybersecurity researchers are in universities. I know that DARPA has worked on this. The National Science Foundation, of course, supports a large number of research programs in sort of the unclassified core of cybersecurity. But honestly, it is an area that needs a better research workforce, as well as a better practitioner workforce. I would like to mention one additional reason why this is so important, and that is every aspect of our Nation's critical infrastructure is now controlled by computer systems. All right? So this just ten years ago was much less so for, let us say, the power grid, all right? These days, all of these are complex, interconnected systems subject to attack from information technology in ways that can actually damage hard- to-replace physical infrastructure. So we truly do need more communication and collaboration among the agencies. The Senior Steering Group that NITRD has created in the past couple of years since the 2010 report has gone a long way towards addressing the coordination issues. Mr. Lipinski. Any other comments? I will move on. Okay, great. All of you are computer scientists. I actually have a background as an engineer but also in--with the dark side got my Ph.D. in political science. I am also a social scientist. In your testimony, you all discussed the need for computer scientists to collaborate with social scientists to address many scientific and technological challenges. Can you elaborate on the role of social and behavioral scientists do and should play in NIT R&D? And are there sufficient federal mechanisms to support multidisciplinary collaboration among computer scientists, engineers, and social scientists? Let me say that I know there is a lot of bad social science research out there, but I think, unfortunately, it is all getting lumped together and attempted to be thrown out. But can you talk to the role that social and behavioral scientists can play in NIT R&D? Dr. McKinley? Dr. McKinley. Humans interact with computers, so if we don't understand how humans want to interact with them, if we don't understand the social sciences, if it is not a collaboration, we can't make IT work for people because it is about the people. And yes, there is bad research in every area unfortunately, but there is mostly good research. And a great example is health. If you want to make people--or if you want to use your cell phone that you are carrying around to help you be healthier, we might want to remind you to take a walk or eat better, but we don't want you to--we need to understand how those hints help you or maybe they discourage you and you get mad at your phone and you stop doing it. So some of these basic issues on how you use IT for health require both doctor collaborations, user interface, and people who understand how human beings make decisions. Mr. Lipinski. Dr. Gaither? Dr. Gaither. So to further that point, visualization is all about really verifying visualizations. We can't really do that quantifiably right now. So we do them with user studies because visualization is about how people perceive the images that they are seeing. I also want to address the point about the interdisciplinary research. So I do think that there is a frightening shortage of funding going into interdisciplinary research. And let me say, while it may be a little cliche, the sum of putting people together from different backgrounds really is greater than the individual parts. And I think the magic happens when you put people together from very different backgrounds working towards a common goal. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you very much. I am out of time. I yield back. Chairman Bucshon. I recognize Mr. Stockman for five minutes. Mr. Stockman. I have kind of a concern because I am hearing an underlying theme about cybersecurity. And I guess I would go through the three of you doctors who are professionals and tell us, hey, how much--if we need more funding, how much more funding do we need for cybersecurity to defend against it? And two, are we doing enough work towards that? I was shocked--I was at a Chevron gas station and actually the gasoline pumps were shut down because of a cyber attack. And I don't think people realize to what degree, how deeply we are dependent upon computers and satellites. I guess I would go through and tell us from our job--to do our job right, are you getting enough funding? And how much is enough and what do we need to do? Dr. Lazowska. I am not going to be able to answer your question in specific terms I am afraid. There had been numerous calls for greater investments in fundamental research in cybersecurity. I think now, we are spending enormous amounts of money in short-term defenses, which are holding the threats at bay largely, although not entirely as you point out. We are not spending enough laying the groundwork for systems that are designed in a way that they will actually be resistant to attack. So the problem is that you can't just bolt security on to a complex hardware/software system at the last minute after it has been designed in an insecure way. We have learned a huge amount in the past ten years about how to build reliable and secure systems. Microsoft has in fact been a leader in this. The quality of Microsoft's code and its resistance to penetrations has improved enormously in the past decade. But we do need significantly greater investment in the fundamentals. I was the co-chair of the late PITAC, President's Information Technology Advisory Committee, under President Bush. We wrote a report on cybersecurity that called for significantly increased investment in the National Science Foundation and other agencies, and we didn't get reappointed as a reward for our efforts. It is a serious issue. Mr. Stockman. I don't mean to interrupt but when you say significant, is there a number that you targeted or suggested? Dr. Lazowska. Unfortunately, the problem is that it is a portfolio. You need an investment in the long-range work. You need to continue the investment in blocking threats, and you need to span---- Mr. Stockman. But I mean is there a price tag that we can-- I mean we have to---- Dr. Lazowska. We called eight years ago for an investment of, I believe, another $90 million at the National Science Foundation, which I view as a tiny amount of money relative to the potential cost of insecurity. But you do have to realize that the payoff from that investment would be some number of years down the road. Mr. Stockman. That is more than what they have stolen from some banks through---- Dr. Lazowska. Less than they have stolen from some banks. Mr. Stockman. Yes, that is what I meant. Yes, that is what I am saying---- Dr. Lazowska. It is less than what they have stolen from some gas stations, I am sure---- Mr. Stockman. Yes, exactly. Dr. Lazowska. This--it is a very serious issue, sir. Mr. Stockman. In fact, I think in 10 seconds we probably-- less than that, we have spent that. Dr. McKinley, I have a question for you. You actually worked--and I have got to hurry up because we are out of time-- but you worked with the private sector or you have. You also had federal and state. Which in your opinion do you see the most efficiency? If we had appropriated money, where would you put that funding? Dr. McKinley. So different research needs to be done at different times and different places. So one of the reasons I moved from academia to Microsoft Research is because many of the problems that I work on, such as making your phone last longer and runtime systems, which I won't tell you exactly what that means, but that right now these areas are turning into actionable products and things that people want to use. And so right now is the right time for some of the groundwork that my research laid to move into industry. And it is that flow of people who come with their ideas and their expertise that makes the whole system work. Like I loved academia. I might go back someday, but this is the right place for me to be right now. And that ecosystem is represented by my career and as a grad student my first funding was National Science Foundation, a Science and Technology Center, which was a big bet on parallel computing, and that is technology we really need today, and I am still an expert in that area. Chairman Bucshon. Gentlemen yields back. Ms. Esty, you are recognized for five minutes. Ms. Esty. Thank you very much. You have all described how important federal investments are in NITRD to this country. And as you know, we face a rather challenging budgetary climate right now. For Dr. McKinley, the questioned frequently arises, you know, why can't more of this be done out of the private sector? So if you can talk about what you think the implications are if we continue to cut back on basic R&D, what is the likelihood that Microsoft or other private companies would fill in the gap of the research that now is being done on basic R&D? Dr. McKinley. So most companies aren't making even the modest investment that Microsoft is making. A startup company takes some ideas that are in a university and doesn't exist until those ideas exist and then they become a billion-dollar industry and a competitor of Microsoft's, like Google. So those kinds of activities just won't happen in big established companies, even ones that believe as strongly in research and the research ecosystem as Microsoft. Ms. Esty. I would also like you--all three of you have mentioned the importance of education. I have a junior in college who is doing computer science and astrophysics. But there are not many girls in his class, I will tell you that, very few young women. Could you talk about what you see as the opportunities and what actually we can be doing particularly at the younger ages? What can we be doing in this country, if we are going to get U.S. competitiveness, which is this long pipeline? And as he tells me, Mom, these classes are really hard. I could be doing much better in economics or in my major, political science, but, you know, computer science and physics are really hard. So what can we--your insights, what can we do with MOOCs, with other things? What should we be doing as a country and how does R&D fit into that? Dr. McKinley. So we have to have better math and IT education. Right now, computer science is--the AP class is only taught in five percent of high schools across the country. If people, especially women and minorities, don't have exposure to computer science as high school students, they never decide to pick it up in college anymore, because now, there is a dichotomy of skills and they feel like they are already behind because it is a hard major. And so I think what we need to be doing is prepping more of our students in high school to have the skills that at least it is a choice for them. So more rigorous math and science classes and the preparation, the right sets of skills so that they can do them. Dr. Lazowska. A comment that I think is important is that computer science needs to be viewed as part of STEM. In the State of Washington, where I am, it is part of essentially commercial education. It is in there with woodshop and metal shop and cooking and, you know, I took print shop when I was in high school in Washington, D.C., but I don't use it a lot today. Every student going forward needs to understand what we call computational thinking. Every field, whether it is biology or sociology, is utilizing computational thinking. That is models and algorithmic expression and decomposing problems into pieces you can solve and assembling and testing those results. We do this in our daily lives. So I think of programming as the hands-on inquiry-based way in which we teach computational thinking. It can be an end in itself but at the K to 12 level, computational thinking as part of STEM embodied in AP computer science, which uses programming as an inquiry-based way to teach that, is critical for all students. Dr. Gaither. So this is a subject I am pretty passionate about. And we lose a shocking number of our young girls around third or fourth grade and we never get them back. I have a daughter that is struggling right now as a junior to decide whether she wants to go into a STEM field or into art. It is really that far apart. I think we need to be a little more aggressive and get funding streams to connect what is going on in the undergraduate population and go all the way back into the educational pipeline as far back as third grade and get them thinking about the computational thinking but also give them examples. Why are we doing this? Why do we care? How will it benefit society? In my experience, the young girls that I have worked with, once you educate them about how it is going to impact society, they are all on board. They are interested. Dr. McKinley. So I just want to add the creativity part of computer science is often undervalued and that we want our young people to know that they can be creators of technology; it is not just consumers and users of it. And that it is now easy with some of the technologies such as robotics, Kinect, and other things to really help them if we provide some educational tools to go along with some of these technologies to help them see how to satisfy their needs for creativity in this field, which is very exciting. Dr. Lazowska. I wanted to say one word about MOOCs, which is something that you raised and other Members have raised. The notion that what you learn in college lasts you for a lifetime, that is a notion we left behind in the 20th century. So one thing MOOCs do is give you the opportunity to pick up knowledge that you need throughout your lifetime. I think there is an enormous amount of work to be done in understanding exactly how people learn through MOOCs and figuring out how to use the large-scale data to understand how people learn and how we can teach them better. We just ran a workshop the past two days in Washington, D.C., on exactly this subject, which is what is the science that we can do in this online scalable world to understand how to teach and learn better? So I think there are enormous opportunities here, particularly for lifelong learning. The jury is still out on whether it dramatically changes the four- year college experience or K to 12. Chairman Bucshon. Thank you very much. Yeah, in the area of education--I will make a brief comment--there is a program in Indiana, in Indianapolis, called Project Lead the Way. I don't know if anyone has ever heard of that. But they are doing exactly what some of you are talking about in high schools around the country, a lot in Indiana, especially in Evansville where I live, and focusing on engineering education, hands-on, and how children and young adults learn better. If we can show them exactly what you all have said, how it impacts them and not just have it on a sheet of paper, so that is very important. I will now go into a second line of questioning. We have votes coming up at three o'clock but I think we have time for a second round of questioning. So I will yield to Mr. Lipinski. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I always have to mention--I do mention I have two degrees in engineering but I always have to say that my wife has a degree in math, so we cover a few of the STEM fields there. I want to give Dr. Lazowska his opportunity here to do his very short version of walking us through the--something you had mentioned, talking about the technology that Apple pulled together to develop the iPad, how they originated with federal research investments. So you are going to get 4 minutes to do this. We have had this done--you posted a briefing before for the Committee on this, but can you give us a short version right now? Just show us how federal research wound up in this device. Dr. Lazowska. Thank you so much. Here are just a couple of examples. The multi-touch interface, this is the sort of zoom with your fingers, goes back to federally supported research. And in fact, in the late 1990s, Apple acquired a company spun out from the University of Delaware with federal funding in which this multi-touch gestural interface work was done. And that became the interface on the original iPhone and now on the iPad. That is one example. One of the great things about this device is the suite of sensors. There is a GPS, there is a compass, things like that, that tell you where you are, make driving directions work in your GPS unit or in your iPad or iPhone or Windows Phone I have to say. And these sensors go back to physics research in the 1930s, all right, which led to things like the atomic clocks which make the satellites work and eventually the GPS that we deployed in satellites. The miniaturization driven through the NITRD program of these components makes it possible to put it in a phone or a device like this. Academic and industry research--much of the academic research funded by the Federal Government has changed the way we design integrated circuits and the very architecture of the microprocessors. This is Dr. McKinley's--one of her specialties. But we designed microprocessors, including the one in this device, in an entirely different way to an entirely different architecture than we were doing before the NITRD investment. I could go on and on and I appreciate the opportunity, but the important thing is the ideas in this device go back in some cases to basic research 80 years. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. And maybe we could do another-- maybe come in again. I know some new Members of the Committee maybe come in and get the extended version of---- Dr. Lazowska. We would welcome the opportunity. Thank you. Mr. Lipinski. And since you didn't take up all the 4 minutes, I wanted to throw out another question just in general about ideas about how can MOOCs help STEM education? How do you see those? Briefly, what are your thoughts on that? Dr. McKinley? Dr. McKinley. So the reason the jury is out on MOOCs is because we know that interactive activities with a great teacher who inspires you, with someone who sees what you are doing wrong as you try to work the problem, is one of the most effective ways to get people excited and to educate them. So my kids are seeing a flipped classroom right now where you have a lecture from your regular teacher and then in the classroom you are doing the example problems or working through a worksheet, and so then, the teacher is watching you. So I feel like that that is probably the most effective way that we are going to see MOOCs, so you have the best lecturer in the world, so people have polished this to be perfect, and then you have tutors or your teacher is now doing the hands-on watching how you understood, what kind of educational experience that you need. Because although many computer science lectures have just the professor talking at the front of the room, that is not where you really learn how to do computer science. So it has to be a mix of these different learning styles and MOOCs, I think, are going to have a role perhaps mostly in lifelong learning with very motivated people who already learned their learning style. But I think in terms of MOOCs having a huge effect on my 11-year-old, I don't think that is going to motivate him to do his math homework. Mr. Lipinski. I think there is a lot more to say here but just for my colleagues I think may have some questions, I am going to yield back right now, and hopefully, we could come back to this another time. Chairman Bucshon. Thank you. I yield to Mr. Stockman. Mr. Stockman. I just have a quick question. This to me is really phenomenal about computer security and everything. And as you can tell from the line of questioning, I think it weighs on a lot of our minds. And the Administration and Congress got $800 billion or some people say 1 trillion in stimulus money. Did any of you receive any of that or request any of that funding for computer security? Dr. McKinley. I got some of that money. Mr. Stockman. How much did you get? Dr. McKinley. I got $500,000 and I employed four graduate students over the three courses of the year, and those people are working at Intel, Facebook, and Google. And one of them is a professor. So that helped create jobs because I was able to hire graduate students and they are highly trained and---- Mr. Stockman. Was--excuse me. I apologize. We are running short, close to vote, but was it specifically for computer security? Dr. McKinley. So this research spanned computer security and computer systems, which I think is this intersection of these two areas. Mr. Stockman. Well, I am wondering because in terms of money, in terms of government, you mentioned $90 million. That seems nominal for such an important critical--I mean our infrastructure is so dependent upon it, it is kind of, I don't know, bizarre that we don't spend more money defending the life system of this nation. Dr. McKinley. The issue with cybersecurity is that it is not just something, as Ed pointed out, that you can Band-Aid on---- Mr. Stockman. Right, full-time---- Dr. McKinley. --it has to be--you have to have it as part of the whole system that you are building. And so it is not going to be solved just by the people who are only experts in security working on it. It has to be partnership between people who work on runtime systems and power efficiency and designing architectures. These people have to work together and design from the get-go. And so it is not enough to just say, oh, we are going to explode the amount of money in computer security, because the way you make these partnerships is much more complicated and it requires a richer risk portfolio that has a lot of investments in different areas to get people to partner with them. Mr. Stockman. But Dr. McKinley, what I am saying from our standpoint, it would be helpful if we had some guidance because I think this is very critical to our infrastructure. And I appreciate you coming out today and I look forward to more guidance and how we can help you secure our Nation's lifeblood. I really appreciate all your help. Dr. McKinley. So then these large multidisciplinary projects where you are saying let us make some software systems more secure, let us make architectures more secure, so it is a partnering of people who are experts on cybersecurity and people who are experts on that topic area that you are trying to make more secure. I think those broad, multidisciplinary, big-bet kind of investments that NSF has done very well in several instances, including under my graduate career are the ways to make that happen. And that is much more complicated than just saying we are going to throw a ton of money at cybersecurity and good luck. And we don't care if you partner with anyone. Mr. Stockman. Well, I don't know about saying good luck. But I was actually following up on---- Dr. McKinley. No, no---- Mr. Stockman. --his comments that it was $90 million. And I thought in terms of our goals and our objectives, I think $90 million would have been very wisely spent if we gave it to you. Chairman Bucshon. Thank you. And I--unless you want to comment on that. Dr. Lazowska. All I can say is that I agree with Dr. McKinley and with you. There are some areas of critical importance where we need greater investment, and it is important to realize that the federal investment in fundamental research is multiplied so many times over in its impact over the long term. Mr. Stockman. And I agree with you. I just wish we allocated billions instead of millions. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman Bucshon. Gentleman yields back. Ms. Esty? Ms. Esty. Thank you. Yes, I would like to follow that up a little bit because it seems to be part of this is the inherent tension between what we do, which tends to be dealing with the urgent; and the important, which is the long-term R&D. And so how we get the marriage of those two so that we address these important problems, Dr. Lazowska, you talked about the importance of patience in basic R&D. And we are facing--Representative Stockman and I sat in on the same briefing by General Alexander, which was completely terrifying to us about how incredibly vulnerable we are at every level and we haven't even really talked about the energy grid, which is truly stupefyingly terrible because we know they don't even have systems that are 20 years old. They are older than that right now. So that is a different order of challenge because they aren't even operating the way they ought to be, much less are they secure. So if any of you have thoughts on how we balance this need for problem-solving about these urgent, immediate needs and yet also fund basic research that we can't exactly say where is it going to lead but we do know it is going to lead to these important innovations down the road. Dr. Lazowska. I am afraid this is why we vote for you. These are very difficult challenges. I will say that shortly after September 11, 2001, I was on a National Academies panel that looked at IT R&D relative to national security, and what we concluded was precisely that investments in protecting our vast infrastructure that relies on computing are much more important than my inability to buy from Amazon one afternoon because the Internet is down. All right? So every element of our critical national infrastructure relies now inherently on information systems. And we have to recognize that does represent a huge vulnerability. Chairman Bucshon. All right. I would like to thank the witnesses for their valuable and very interesting testimony. And I have one of those new Xboxes by the way. My kids love it. It is just awesome. Got it for Christmas. There are Members of the Committee who may have additional questions for you and we will ask that you respond to those in writing. The record will remain open for two weeks for additional comments and written questions from the Members. The witnesses are excused and the hearing is adjourned. Thank you. [Whereupon, at 3:02 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]